LTB 376/16 - Dismissal for use of a Racist Term

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 10 Jun 2016, 16:26

LTB 376/16 - Dismissal for use of a Racist Term

No. 376/2016

Our Ref: LR/FH/JR

10th June 2016

Dear Colleagues,

Dismissal for use of a Racist Term

We have recently been made aware of the Employment Tribunal case concerning Mann v NSL Ltd where an employee, in this case an ambulance worker, was dismissed for using a racist term at work.

Clearly, we all have a responsibility to be respectful at work and this case demonstrates very clinically the pitfalls if anyone decides to use foul and abusive language. Whilst this case does not represent case law it is still interesting to note how a Tribunal is likely to view such a case.

The individual was dismissed after a colleague overheard the comment in question. Even though the comment was clearly not directed at the individual, this point in law is irrelevant. The individual’s defence that his comment was “local street talk”, and that he did not realise that anyone else was listening and finally the point that dismissal was a disproportionate sanction was all dismissed by the residing Judge.

More details on this case can be found by searching Mann v NSL Ltd on the internet.

Yours Sincerely,

Linda Roy

National Equality Officer

Post by **POSTMAN** » 10 Jun 2016, 18:13

http://www.personneltoday.com/hr/workpl ... reet-talk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 10 Jun 2016, 18:49

The "colleague" who bubbled him must be so proud.
What a wonderful (and hopefully) perfect specimen of humanity he must be.

Post by **iainwilson** » 10 Jun 2016, 21:13

I was called a stupid white bastard repeatedly by youths at a certain address. When I complained about it gaffer sent parcels there with another driver. No legal action. Boot on left foot is f****d but boot on right foot stamps on f****d left foot

motherhubbard · Post by **motherhubbard** » 10 Jun 2016, 22:09

Tman wrote:The "colleague" who bubbled him must be so proud.
What a wonderful (and hopefully) perfect specimen of humanity he must be.

If you actually bothered to read the article you would know it was a she who "bubbled" him.
But what is the world coming to when you can't call a nigger a nigger eh? It must be that political correctness gone mad again or maybe the majority just don't like racists.

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 10 Jun 2016, 22:42

iainwilson wrote:I was called a stupid white bastard repeatedly by youths at a certain address. When I complained about it gaffer sent parcels there with another driver. No legal action. Boot on left foot is f****d but boot on right foot stamps on f****d left foot

what happened when you reported it to the police?

DAF85 · Post by **DAF85** » 11 Jun 2016, 03:51

motherhubbard wrote: But what is the world coming to when you can't call a nigger a nigger eh? It must be that political correctness gone mad again or maybe the majority just don't like racists.

with attitudes like this what hope for society ?

Personally I think the Majority don't like racists.

wannabeek · Post by **wannabeek** » 11 Jun 2016, 05:44

Im certain that MH was being ironic. That's not something that easily comes across sometimes when on a screen. Say it with a rolly-eyes voice and I think thats the gist of it.

borgpicard · Post by **borgpicard** » 11 Jun 2016, 08:16

Idiots get so offended, for the slightest thing now, its getting beyond a fu cking joke.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 11 Jun 2016, 08:38

motherhubbard wrote:
Tman wrote:The "colleague" who bubbled him must be so proud.
What a wonderful (and hopefully) perfect specimen of humanity he must be.
If you actually bothered to read the article you would know it was a she who "bubbled" him.
But what is the world coming to when you can't call a nigger a nigger eh? It must be that political correctness gone mad again or maybe the majority just don't like racists.

Nothing to do with calling anyone anything, but more to do with some snivelling little sh*t getting someone else the sack, with all that entails. Some words and attitudes are no longer acceptable in the 21st century, but they must be more appropriate punitive measures than dismissal?
I'm assuming all you see is someone using the "N" word, and that's blinded you to the bigger picture of natural justice and appropriate punishments.
Room 101 for the paramedic then?

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 11 Jun 2016, 13:42

Management makes the decision to dismiss rather than warn or educate the offender, a tribunal judge agrees with the decision and ultimately the person who made the comments was given a chance to withdraw the remarks. Yet its her fault. A snivelling little s**t is hardly likely to confront the person direct before taking it further.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 11 Jun 2016, 17:42

There's a daily catalogue (on this forum) discussing the crap decisions management make, and as is also often said, tribunals are there to see that procedures have been followed correctly, so best not use that particular line of reasoning.
I don't doubt in your daily working life you've (over)heard many times things that are regrettable, nasty, stupid, cringe-worthy, etc but (hopefully) you never felt the need to go squinnying to the boss every time you did? You didn't, did you?
This one did go squinnying even though the black girl wasn't even there to hear the crass remark, so yes, the nasty little person is to blame. That 21st century phenomenon of "you weren't there, so I'll be offended for you.."
Your logic TBT has a parallel and reminds me of when the Gestapo files were opened post-war and all the letters denouncing friends, neighbours etc released. When confronted, the denouncers always seem to use the same reasoning..."she said Hitler was a little man and it was my duty to inform the authorities, but it wasn't me who dragged them away or sent them to Bergen-Belsen, the courts did that so nothing to do with me...etc etc..snivel.."
As the old Gilbert and Sullivan song goes, "let the punishment fit the crime" and dismissal in this case was ludicrous.
Management at it's "finest", and needing to be seen to be hard on anything with the slightest tinge of racism.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 11 Jun 2016, 18:18

Tman wrote: Your logic TBT has a parallel and reminds me of when the Gestapo files were opened post-war and all the letters denouncing friends, neighbours etc released. When confronted, the denouncers always seem to use the same reasoning..."she said Hitler was a little man and it was my duty to inform the authorities, but it wasn't me who dragged them away or sent them to Bergen-Belsen, the courts did that so nothing to do with me...etc etc..snivel.."

Godwins law just been broken yet again - and I didn't need to take the Bar exam to know that.

Language is one of the myriad means by which power and control is exercised. (Did you know that native Gaelic speaking children less than 50 years ago were punished for speaking Gaelic at school - English speaking schools ?). This has nothing to do with political correctness - this has to do with cultural domination.

If I want to refer to myself, or Mrs. Jetblack wants to for eg., as a black dick then that is OK. But its not OK for you to do it. Why ? Because Mrs Jetblack is trusted. You aren't trusted. Your motives are unknown. You haven't (through proof of work) established the trust that would mean you could refer to me in that way without it being taken as an insult.

Do you see what I mean wee man ? Is it OK if I refer to you as wee man Tman BTW ?

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 11 Jun 2016, 18:47

Jet old feller, you may refer to me any way you care to; your posts, as are all posts, are nothing more than a row of charged pixels and have the same worth.
Referring to Godwin's Law (now a cliché in it's own right, and you don't "break" it, you "follow" it) is diversionary, as is how your other half does or doesn't refer to you.
But it's good to see you never set up the "ignore" feature yet. People who say they're going to do that and also use phrases like "I'm outta here" can just never resist that one last little look to see if they're still be talked about, and then just can't resist that one last little riposte...

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 11 Jun 2016, 19:05

What I've come to understand about racism over the years is that its virtually impossible, under most circumstances, to pin down. Next to no-one would (want to) recognise in themselves that they are , in fact, racist. Most racists are not members of the Klu Klux Klan or the BNP. The behaviour by which racism manifests itself in everyday life is most times impossible to put down to the individual (the racist that is) as actually being racist - even though in reality that is the motive. Racism is subversive. Its underhand and sneeky. It doubts the truth to be a liar etc. It doesn't like to speak its own name. It is not overt and in the open.

But racism does, nonetheless, exist. Now, as much as ever - some people are weak and use difference as a means to ostracise and alienate.
How to weed racism out, that is the question.

But, to be honest, when an individual is using language as that by the person in the OP, then it kind of gives the game away, it makes the diagnosis a lot simpler and the weeding out a lot more straightforward.