Cwu executives

[Valentina@1]

It amazes me how quick people on here are prepared to put the boot into the CWU and take everything Royal Mail say as gospel.The CWU could quite easily of separated the odm change from the new entrants issue but chose to link them in the hope it would give them more leverage in negotiating because both sides wanted something.That tells me they are looking out for everyone here and not just legacy workers, let’s not forget it was Royal Mail that brought these contracts in without CWU agreement. Back your union , they are the only ones standing between us and a billionaire employer that doesn’t have our best interests at heart.

We backed them,for whatever reason they surrendered

[chickenwittle]

It amazes me how quick people on here are prepared to put the boot into the CWU and take everything Royal Mail say as gospel.The CWU could quite easily of separated the odm change from the new entrants issue but chose to link them in the hope it would give them more leverage in negotiating because both sides wanted something.That tells me they are looking out for everyone here and not just legacy workers, let’s not forget it was Royal Mail that brought these contracts in without CWU agreement. Back your union , they are the only ones standing between us and a billionaire employer that doesn’t have our best interests at heart.

We backed them,for whatever reason they surrendered

I think it was a poor deal but what exactly did they surrender on ? We got a pay rise , they got better sick pay conditions, which if people are being honest were being milked to the extreme anyway so hasn’t affected me in anyway and slightly later starts which again have hardly affected me . They wanted legacy workers to work Sundays, that didn’t happen.

[tramssirhc]

Hans it says everything that you believe what Royal Mail have said in a comms when they say the pilots are improving both quality and cost wise.

In addition they are critical of the CWU linking The equalisation of new entrant pay , terms and conditions to a USO agreement and the CWU’s proposal on equalisation is unaffordable.

Remember it is only the CWU who are fighting to stop ODM and get equalisation.

Members will be able to pick a side shortly back the union and oppose ODM and support equalisation or moan and groan and let Royal Mail and EP impose ODM and break their commitment to equalise new entrants.

Remember if they impose it , they will likely do it first to those offices where they believe they will get the least resistance.

It is time for the union to come together and decide which side your on. Sitting on the fence means you’re part of the problem.

This union is not agreeing ODM and will resist it by all means possible and we are determined to improve new entrants terms within any USO agreement which would have to be based on the Heavy and light model or also known as the 50/50 model.

I know that there will be hundreds of offices up for a row if they try and impose ODM.

So it is really is time you decided whether your going to hold some of our members coats whilst they are willing to fight or apply pressure for a better deal or your willing to take your coat off.

I got more votes than the last DGSP in 2016 so I have a mandate and whilst we will go into the DRP with the aim of reaching an agreement in USO which is not ODM and we will want to improve new entrants terms there is also the real possibility that we will not reach an agreement.

So people can make excuses about the Last dispute , the last pay deal. Do you really think those involved in the 1971 dispute or the employer agenda in 1996 did not have doubts over the success of those disputes.

Yet it did not stop those members from deciding that you either fold and accept what the employer wants or you resist and fight. You always get a better deal if you’re prepared to stand up.

It is really is mad that anonymous individuals feel empowered to slag of individuals behind a screen who would never have the courage to say that in a discussion at a meeting.

Martin,

It's a bit rich to pop up in here and start taking people to task for being anonymous. It's the internet pal and for all we know 'martin walsh' could be anyone.

Is it coincidence that you appear within days of the Comms department being shutdown? Aye, the Comms department was piss poor but for members it was a way into the union that was closed off by the full time mob, yourself included.

You would do well to remember it was you who turned up in workplaces telling workers there was no plan b. It was you who signed up to the proposal put to the members. It is simply not true that the CWU is fighting back and it appears you are, what the kids call, 'gaslighting' us.

You do not have the backing of the majority of the membership and many members have absolutely no idea who you are. And that's one of the CWU's biggest problems - a lack of rank and file organisation.

It is widely acknowledged by historians of our movement that the 1971 dispute was a loss, with no lesser authority than Dave Chapple calling it a surrender. Mind you it did result in the Hardman enquiry. The 2022 dispute really was a loss. We didn't even get an enquiry, never mind 'a 'better deal' for standing up. What we got is where we are today.

This forum is the only way of members holding the CWU to account. You sit at the top of an organisation that deliberately keeps its members at arms length. You've instructed the full time mob to get out and what have they done? Ignored you and closed the Comms department down.

When you decry critism here by claiming what is typed would never be said, I'd tell you exactly what I type. How about you back up your assertion by holding a mass meeting open to all workers where we can test your claim.

In the meantime if you want censorship and subservience stick to the places where you can enforce it. We'll keep holding the CWU to account here.

[norris9]

I'd rather the company went fully into parcels ASAP if that is truly where the money is and if letters are holding Royal Mail back from doing that.

The company is dying on its ass.

Why anyone even needs letters in a world that's been digital for 3 decades is beyond me. I get that there's a market for paper magazines, but everything else can be digital.

[qwerty2]

I'd rather the company went fully into parcels ASAP if that is truly where the money is....

The company is dying on its ass.

Why anyone even needs letters in a world that's been digital for 3 decades is beyond me. I get that there's a market for paper magazines, but everything else can be digital.

Are you a manager?
You want 30,000 - 40,000 people to lose their jobs

[Martin Walsh]

Norris unfortunately that would be the wrong move.

Parcels are growing by 2.3% but revenue from them is falling. Why ? Because every other parcel courier is cheaper including the bogus self employed model. Some of Royal Mails biggest contracts are demanding Royal Mail charge less or they will go with the competitors.

In addition we all know the size of parcels is growing and therefore because Royal Mail still put parcel in Yorks and therefore your getting less parcels in a York the cost of haulage is going up.

If Royal Mail separated parcels from letter exclusively then the only they would compete is adopting self employed owner drivers at the expense of our members jobs.

Within the EP agreement is a legal guarantee to prevent them from introducing owner drivers.

[chickenwittle]

I'd rather the company went fully into parcels ASAP if that is truly where the money is and if letters are holding Royal Mail back from doing that.

The company is dying on its ass.

Why anyone even needs letters in a world that's been digital for 3 decades is beyond me. I get that there's a market for paper magazines, but everything else can be digital.

They live amongst us.

[hans solo]

sean the sheep

As opposed to someone that believes everything Royal Mail tell them

If only you knew

[goldy2007]

I have no skin in the game and feel playing devils advocate is the best i can offer, firstly on the companys statement, because they got away with executive action last time chances are they think it will happen again, equalisation was always going to be a problem as why give yourself more costs when you really don't have too and lying to the union and workforce is second nature to them. Enforcing some sort of way of working will give them a starting point, if it works or not is immaterial to RM they just want to push on with it and prove it doesn't work to ofcom so they can try to dilute the letter service further and maybe even try dump it altogether. The universal service is a costly inconvenience.
As for what the union and Martin says, problem is you can beat your chest all you like and ask the membership to stand up and be counted to defend your jobs and terms, but unfortunately the last time you did this wasn't very long ago and when you beat your chest the workforce came out and delivered a massive "YES" and you proceeded to then fold and cave in to the company and no matter how you try to spin it people haven't forgot.
So where do you go?
Well that would be up to you the membership, i would vote for IA and stand at the gate because i feel this is probably the last stand for you guys, but i could totally understand anyone who doesn't want any action after the last time.
Difficult one because you are probably damned if you do and damned if you don't so good luck.

Market forces will ultimately the value of new entrants T&Cs

If enough people walk and positions aren’t filled it will have to change

Biggest problem Royal Mail has is it is set up as a service industry enough to cover every address every day if need be

Not a for profit set up

[Sean06]

sean the sheep

Your hillarious..must have taking you all night to think of that.whilst dreaming how honest rm are.

[scotchy1962]

Norris unfortunately that would be the wrong move.

Parcels are growing by 2.3% but revenue from them is falling. Why ? Because every other parcel courier is cheaper including the bogus self employed model. Some of Royal Mails biggest contracts are demanding Royal Mail charge less or they will go with the competitors.

In addition we all know the size of parcels is growing and therefore because Royal Mail still put parcel in Yorks and therefore your getting less parcels in a York the cost of haulage is going up.

If Royal Mail separated parcels from letter exclusively then the only they would compete is adopting self employed owner drivers at the expense of our members jobs.

Within the EP agreement is a legal guarantee to prevent them from introducing owner drivers.

Martin here lies your problem, "our members jobs" you didn't listen to them, and i was one at the time, when we voted for IA.
Your excuse was that the company showed the books and were going bust.
Whats to stop them doing it again?
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!
You won't fall for it again, but sure they are already talking about enforcing change by executive action, same play as last time.
So the books are currently being cooked in preparation for the next move.
The mistake was made last time and instead of being front foot and in their faces, you are back foot and scrabbling about in the dark.
I do wish you all the best in your attempts to bring this company to heel.
But It all feels a bit like Custers venture into little bighorn, remember how that turned out.

[Saturn1]

In my view the union need to take a different tact instead of stalling the company on their proposals, leading to dispute resolution etc.

Why wasn't ODM agreed too, even if it doesn't work, if it secured pay rises for the new contracts? The days of using striking as leverage are sadly over, it's only going to be self-damaging at this point, it hurts the company finances and EP group will just take even more drastic measures.

Ultimately the company can only make reasonable and safe demands of posties, so ODM is only ever going to fail from a mail delivery target viewpoint and they should be held to task on that later on.

[chickenwittle]

In my view the union need to take a different tact instead of stalling the company on their proposals, leading to dispute resolution etc.

Why wasn't ODM agreed too, even if it doesn't work, if it secured pay rises for the new contracts? The days of using striking as leverage are sadly over, it's only going to be self-damaging at this point, it hurts the company finances and EP group will just take even more drastic measures.

Ultimately the company can only make reasonable and safe demands of posties, so ODM is only ever going to fail from a mail delivery target viewpoint and they should be held to task on that later on.

The truth is this isn’t just about odm, it’s about other issues related to the original agreement, equalisation, sick pay and more , the CWU feel the company are not honouring the original agreement.

[tramssirhc]

Norris unfortunately that would be the wrong move.

Parcels are growing by 2.3% but revenue from them is falling. Why ? Because every other parcel courier is cheaper including the bogus self employed model. Some of Royal Mails biggest contracts are demanding Royal Mail charge less or they will go with the competitors.

In addition we all know the size of parcels is growing and therefore because Royal Mail still put parcel in Yorks and therefore your getting less parcels in a York the cost of haulage is going up.

If Royal Mail separated parcels from letter exclusively then the only they would compete is adopting self employed owner drivers at the expense of our members jobs.

Within the EP agreement is a legal guarantee to prevent them from introducing owner drivers.

Martin,

You're doing the industry's bidding. Telling us the cost of everything and the value of nothing. The idea that the employers in the industry are going to launch a price war against each other is nonsense. That's not how the industry operates and you know that. The employers all know each other and meet to agree not to drive each other out of business.

You do the Union no favours telling us about the cost of a York. It's nonsense that the entire traffic arrives in Yorks and leaves in Yorks. The use of Yorks is not the issue in the cost of logistics and the industry uses various containers for the distribution of traffic.

Instead of acting as the megaphone of the bosses start organising us.

[Mr Rush]

Some of Royal Mails biggest contracts are demanding Royal Mail charge less or they will go with the competitors.

Which they could easily do, so why make a big scene? Evidently there is something beyond lowest price point that RM's service provides which appeals to these retailers. If observing other couriers is any indication, the foremost attraction is properly delivering the packet.