Public Holiday Entitlement

[Smoothbackground]

The manager sounds like a real dickhead, they would know that you are entitled to a day back on your holiday quota, don't let it slide, make sure you get it back. It would br 5 hours they owe you.

That's not what the contract says. The contract says the requirement is to work 5 days out of 7. There is no mention of a day off. Under the CWU's profit driven delivery method there is a part time rotation that shows no days off for the duty. It's Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Wednesday and Saturday are shown as not applicable. The CWU aren't interested of course because 'its not a problem'. This thread suggests it very well maybe.

Bank Holiday, everyone gets them, if they fall on your day off they owe you a day, and the CWU have helped me in the past in regards to this.

Only if the bank holiday falls on the 'day off'. If there is no requirement to work or it's a day where the worker is not contracted to work then no you don't.

Ok, what happens to the persons bank holiday entitlement then? we all are entitled to 8 days bank holidays

In a situation where a worker has no contractual obligation either way on bank holiday there would be no entitlement. They simply would have no contractual obligation to work. Does the working time regulations state there is an absolute right to time off for bank holidays?

Sorefeet beat me to it. We have a contractual right to the bank hols — the contract says so when it talks about holiday entitlement being x days plus 8 bank hols (obs pro rata for pt staff).

In order for that contractual entitlement to exist the contract needs to be explicit about days off. The contract states that the worker will work 5 days out of 7. If there is no contractual statement about days off then it is highly likely that the worker will simply not be required on a bank holiday.

Erm, the contract is explicit and in crystal-clear terms!

Public Holidays

8.2 In addition to your [holiday] entitlement in Clause 8.1 above, you are entitled to the usual public bank holidays applicable to the country where you work.

8.3 Details of local arrangements regarding requesting holidays (including Bank and Public Holidays) may be obtained from your line manager. If you are employed on a part time basis you will have your bank holiday entitlement adjusted in accordance with the Harmonisation of Part Time Conditions of Service Agreement details of which can be found on the Policy and Information Site.

Is that what this contract says?

We await the OP’s definite confirmation, but all delivery posties will have a clause with similar effect in their contracts of employment. As you ought to know — though I suspect you are just being wilfully obtuse — the statutory minimum for someone working five days a week, such as our OP, is 28 days’ holiday (to include the 8 bank hols), and our contractual entitlement is obviously slightly more generous than that…

Your suspicion is wrong. In order to secure the contractual agreement it needs to be understood why the decision that has been made was made. The working time regulations are not as simple as you imply and ACAS are throwing a massive spanner in the works if you look at their assertions. It's no wonder decisions are being made that may not be contractually correct.

Workers are being told that there is no need to consider bank or public holidays or how the contract may deal with them because they are not contracted to work on these days. It appears that the contractual clause for some workers means this decision is wrong. For other workers there maybe cases where they are using their leave entitlement in a way that ACAS says it cannot be used. ACAS also state that there cannot be payment in lieu of bank or public holidays except when a worker is leaving the employment.

This really is not a case of workers are entitled to bank of public holidays even if the contractual clause says that the leave entitlement includes the bank or public holidays. It's a mess. And it's not helped when the CWU agrees rotations without a rota'd day off like the part time DOC rota.

My suspicion was spot on. The only point about which you are sort of right about is that the contract and law does indeed refer to holiday entitlement for bank hols rather than automatic payment in lieu thereof.

[Londonsburning]

Why do you lot keep quoting the last 50,000,000 posts just to try and score some petty point?

[tramssirhc]

Why do you lot keep quoting the last 50,000,000 posts just to try and score some petty point?

Me?

[Jen1]

I have to say I'm really disappointed about the lack of guidance around this from the business/management. If you're simply contracted to work 5 out of 7 days and those 5 days chop and change all the time at the discretion of the business then I don't really know how you determine if a bank holiday falls on a 'day off' or not. I generally get Sunday off plus whichever day my manager has more spares in.

The week of christmas I was rota'd to work 4 days either side of the 2 bank holidays and at new year I worked 5 days either side of New years day. I haven't claimed any O/T for either of these and have no idea if I have received any credit for these in my A/L balance, I don't know how I would even check this.

I'm not even sure what if any entitlement I have. If they are always changing my days off and they simply say 'well your working days all fall outside of the bank holiday this week, so you have no entitlement', what can I do? Seems like they would always change my rota to disadvantage me.

What can you do? The contract does not stipulate the specific days of work, simply that the contract is to work 5 days out of 7. Unless the contract states that there are specific days off, e.g. 'you will work a rotation which will give you a moving day off' or 'your day off is Saturday' then it is within the contract yo state that a bank holiday is a day where the worker has no contractual obligation. The CWU has agreed to a rotation system that creates a contract for specific days of work with no 'days off'. This situation where workers are being stood down (for want of a better phrase) on bank holidays is a result of the CWU's careless attitude.

Tramssrihc you need to go onto the people app and go to the Royal Mail policy guide and then go to annual leave entitlement then go to page 33 &34 and give that a read

You actually get bank holiday entitlement even if you are not contracted to work on a Monday or a Friday or whatever day that bank holiday falls on

However If you only work 3 days or less per week then you are not entitled to the full amount but there is a calculator on page 34 that shows you what you are entitled to

So even if the people with the new roles that are getting brought in aren’t contracted to work on a Monday ever they will still be entitled to the equivalent time off a different day that week

Hope that helps?

When your contractual agreement was enforced what was conceded? Was it agreed that any bank or public holiday was facilitated as per the contractual clause, i.e. any bank or public holiday was deducted from the total leave allocation and either paid or an alternative day off the same week was agreed.

Well according to the government calculator for holiday entitlement I am entitled to 168hours paid holiday per year

And as my annual leave summary shows that I have 141hours annual leave entitlement at the beginning of the working year then the bank holidays must be taken out of my overall allowance (because 141 is not enough to meet the 168 hours that I’m entitled to by law so the bank holidays must get added on to that 141 hours to make it legal, I think it works out that I get 21 hours above the legal requirement so not even a full week extra)

So they most definitely have to pay you for a bank holiday as it is part of your annual holiday allowance and not an extra benefit done out of the kindness of their hearts

[tramssirhc]

I have to say I'm really disappointed about the lack of guidance around this from the business/management. If you're simply contracted to work 5 out of 7 days and those 5 days chop and change all the time at the discretion of the business then I don't really know how you determine if a bank holiday falls on a 'day off' or not. I generally get Sunday off plus whichever day my manager has more spares in.

The week of christmas I was rota'd to work 4 days either side of the 2 bank holidays and at new year I worked 5 days either side of New years day. I haven't claimed any O/T for either of these and have no idea if I have received any credit for these in my A/L balance, I don't know how I would even check this.

I'm not even sure what if any entitlement I have. If they are always changing my days off and they simply say 'well your working days all fall outside of the bank holiday this week, so you have no entitlement', what can I do? Seems like they would always change my rota to disadvantage me.

What can you do? The contract does not stipulate the specific days of work, simply that the contract is to work 5 days out of 7. Unless the contract states that there are specific days off, e.g. 'you will work a rotation which will give you a moving day off' or 'your day off is Saturday' then it is within the contract yo state that a bank holiday is a day where the worker has no contractual obligation. The CWU has agreed to a rotation system that creates a contract for specific days of work with no 'days off'. This situation where workers are being stood down (for want of a better phrase) on bank holidays is a result of the CWU's careless attitude.

Tramssrihc you need to go onto the people app and go to the Royal Mail policy guide and then go to annual leave entitlement then go to page 33 &34 and give that a read

You actually get bank holiday entitlement even if you are not contracted to work on a Monday or a Friday or whatever day that bank holiday falls on

However If you only work 3 days or less per week then you are not entitled to the full amount but there is a calculator on page 34 that shows you what you are entitled to

So even if the people with the new roles that are getting brought in aren’t contracted to work on a Monday ever they will still be entitled to the equivalent time off a different day that week

Hope that helps?

When your contractual agreement was enforced what was conceded? Was it agreed that any bank or public holiday was facilitated as per the contractual clause, i.e. any bank or public holiday was deducted from the total leave allocation and either paid or an alternative day off the same week was agreed.

Well according to the government calculator for holiday entitlement I am entitled to 168hours paid holiday per year

And as my annual leave summary shows that I have 141hours annual leave entitlement at the beginning of the working year then the bank holidays must be taken out of my overall allowance (because 141 is not enough to meet the 168 hours that I’m entitled to by law so the bank holidays must get added on to that 141 hours to make it legal, I think it works out that I get 21 hours above the legal requirement so not even a full week extra)

So they most definitely have to pay you for a bank holiday as it is part of your annual holiday allowance and not an extra benefit done out of the kindness of their hearts

Thanks for the reply. Was it agreed that you were to be paid or given the agreed alternatives for bank or public holidays then? Or did it simply happen? I'm helping someone at the moment with this exact scenario.

The difference is 27 hours. Would that cover 8 days?

[Jen1]

tramsirrhc the agreement is that Where a bank/public holiday falls on a day where you are not scheduled to work, your manager should adjust your working hours for either the week of the bank/public holiday or the week following the bank/public holiday to give you the time off.

If that’s not possible due to workload then you can either add the day to your annual holiday entitlement; or
take the excess hours paid as overtime. This will be paid at the Monday to Saturday overtime rate

Unless your friend works in HR (because I think they have a slight variation on this) then they are entitled to a payed day off or to be paid one days overtime pay at standard rate

So if they get an alternative day off and usually work 5 days that week they would only be working 4 days but still be getting paid for 5 days

If they opt to be paid overtime then they will be working 5 days but be getting paid for 6 days

If they opt to take it at a later date they get an extra days paid holiday to be taken where there are available holiday allocations left

Hope that makes sense?

[Londonsburning]

So the OP is either entitled to a day in lieu back last week or 5 hours docket or at the very least a day back on their annual leave? I'm sure raXor will be delighted to have this piece of information that was literally answered when they asked the question.

[Navalron]

Your DOM is either due you a day in lieu back or 5 hours overtime pay.

Thank you, I thought as much. It seems they're trying to pull a fast one. Several people in our office have been affected by this, at Christmas, both last week for Good Friday and this week for Easter Monday. Does this company have no shame?

Complete w*****s. WTF is wrong with these managers.

[postmanzach]

Wrong thread sorry.