Martin Walsh doubles down on CWU partnership with Royal Mail over USO pilot reforms: “the principles work”

[moon71]

Typical propaganda with a dash of scare mongering, sprinkled with a touch of bigotry.

What is this fightback? Unofficial walk outs? Tea clubs with tissues? Again still waiting.

How about just turning up to work, sign in sign out, take your break an bring it back. So much less drama than all this bs.

Martin Walsh has saved your job. Martin Walsh has not saved the jobs of the workers most affected by the profit driven method. Keep your nose out.

At least the CWU are involved in the pilots, negotiating something. If it's all profit driven, the CWU bargaining a 10% dividend will be well received. At least it's got something for the members.

What has the PWRFC achieved?

Nothing.

I suggest trams you just shut your mouth, you look an absolute clown sometimes.

[scotchy1962]

Excellent article from the WSWS/SEP. These pilots are simply the beginning of the wholesale change. The genie is out of the bottle and is not going back in.

We are all adults, and most of us appear to be reasonably sensible and accept that some sort of change has to occur.
So how do you effect change?
Pilots seems to be a sensible approach, to see what does and doesn't work.
We at the coalface have seen what happens when change is imposed and it isn't and still isn't pleasant.
If the change is implemented correctly we should all have manageable workloads, i know that sounds slightly hopeful, but it's what i expect from my union.
We are all still waiting for your alternative, and not just more words or abuse for daring to question you.
If all you have is words then i suggest you all get back into that bottle the genie got out of.

Lets be clear. There is no abuse. Prefacing a response with 'adult' and 'reasonably sensible' is patronising.

Any change should be centred on us and improve our lives. That's the only change that needs to occur. The change being forced on us is simply about less of us doing more to create more profit for the industry. When Martin Walsh talks about an 'incentive scheme' he is simply begging for a share of that profit. Not a fair or proportionate share of the profit we create. It's the crumbs from the table.

We will not be effecting any change because the decisions creating the change were made without us and the profit driven method of working is already decided, planned and ready to introduced. Martin Walsh has dishonestly said that the method cannot be introduced with everything being right. Martin contradicted this on Thursday night admitting the pilots are not right.

The pilots are the prelude to what every workplace will accept. There are no trials or tests. The profit driven method is coming in regardless of what the CWU says, thinks or wants. Manageable workloads do not make profits. Working safely does not make a profit.

We demanded and fought for the policy of renationalisation. That was not given to us. We created that policy through the parliament of the CWU, the annual general meeting. The likes of Martin Walsh believe they do not have to adhere to the demands of workers because they know better. Martin Walsh does not. There is one simple demand of the CWU - to carry out the policy of the members and to achieve renationalisation. That's not an alternative. That is the policy. The 'alternative is the CWU getting into bed with the industry and it's regulator and forcing workers to make bigger profits by doing more, faster with less of us.

"Adult" and "reasonably sensible" aren't there to patronise, they are a factual statement to give context. If it offends you somehow then that's a tragedy i cannot fix.
Your continual banging on about the CWU and what you think is going to happen is slightly annoying, you know like that itch you can't quite reach, and whilst i am sure you believe what you are saying is factual and true i think i will call bullshit!!
Every business set up is there to make money, even charities make money, that's the general idea, i know you are hoping for some sort of marxist/leninist/trotsky type society, but at the moment it doesn't exist nor is it liable too.
You go through what the union does and what we expect, yet when the majority vote something in you cry "foul". That's the problem with living in a democracy i guess, now that is patronising!
Blaming someone else for all your problems is easy, doing something about it is hard, so at the moment you lot are taking the easy option so how about you grow a pair and do something about it instead of creeping about on the internet like some sort of virus.

[tramssirhc]

We will not be effecting any change

No you won't. Agreed.

Because of the CWU.

[tramssirhc]

Excellent article from the WSWS/SEP. These pilots are simply the beginning of the wholesale change. The genie is out of the bottle and is not going back in.

We are all adults, and most of us appear to be reasonably sensible and accept that some sort of change has to occur.
So how do you effect change?
Pilots seems to be a sensible approach, to see what does and doesn't work.
We at the coalface have seen what happens when change is imposed and it isn't and still isn't pleasant.
If the change is implemented correctly we should all have manageable workloads, i know that sounds slightly hopeful, but it's what i expect from my union.
We are all still waiting for your alternative, and not just more words or abuse for daring to question you.
If all you have is words then i suggest you all get back into that bottle the genie got out of.

Lets be clear. There is no abuse. Prefacing a response with 'adult' and 'reasonably sensible' is patronising.

Any change should be centred on us and improve our lives. That's the only change that needs to occur. The change being forced on us is simply about less of us doing more to create more profit for the industry. When Martin Walsh talks about an 'incentive scheme' he is simply begging for a share of that profit. Not a fair or proportionate share of the profit we create. It's the crumbs from the table.

We will not be effecting any change because the decisions creating the change were made without us and the profit driven method of working is already decided, planned and ready to introduced. Martin Walsh has dishonestly said that the method cannot be introduced with everything being right. Martin contradicted this on Thursday night admitting the pilots are not right.

The pilots are the prelude to what every workplace will accept. There are no trials or tests. The profit driven method is coming in regardless of what the CWU says, thinks or wants. Manageable workloads do not make profits. Working safely does not make a profit.

We demanded and fought for the policy of renationalisation. That was not given to us. We created that policy through the parliament of the CWU, the annual general meeting. The likes of Martin Walsh believe they do not have to adhere to the demands of workers because they know better. Martin Walsh does not. There is one simple demand of the CWU - to carry out the policy of the members and to achieve renationalisation. That's not an alternative. That is the policy. The 'alternative is the CWU getting into bed with the industry and it's regulator and forcing workers to make bigger profits by doing more, faster with less of us.

"Adult" and "reasonably sensible" aren't there to patronise, they are a factual statement to give context. If it offends you somehow then that's a tragedy i cannot fix.
Your continual banging on about the CWU and what you think is going to happen is slightly annoying, you know like that itch you can't quite reach, and whilst i am sure you believe what you are saying is factual and true i think i will call bullshit!!
Every business set up is there to make money, even charities make money, that's the general idea, i know you are hoping for some sort of marxist/leninist/trotsky type society, but at the moment it doesn't exist nor is it liable too.
You go through what the union does and what we expect, yet when the majority vote something in you cry "foul". That's the problem with living in a democracy i guess, now that is patronising!
Blaming someone else for all your problems is easy, doing something about it is hard, so at the moment you lot are taking the easy option so how about you grow a pair and do something about it instead of creeping about on the internet like some sort of virus.

Come on, you of all the CWU adherents can critique the response better than that.

[tramssirhc]

Typical propaganda with a dash of scare mongering, sprinkled with a touch of bigotry.

What is this fightback? Unofficial walk outs? Tea clubs with tissues? Again still waiting.

How about just turning up to work, sign in sign out, take your break an bring it back. So much less drama than all this bs.

Martin Walsh has saved your job. Martin Walsh has not saved the jobs of the workers most affected by the profit driven method. Keep your nose out.

At least the CWU are involved in the pilots, negotiating something. If it's all profit driven, the CWU bargaining a 10% dividend will be well received. At least it's got something for the members.

What has the PWRFC achieved?

Nothing.

I suggest trams you just shut your mouth, you look an absolute clown sometimes.

The CWU's involvement in the profit driven method is like that of a hostage. All the promises amount to nothing and Martin Walsh keeps confirming that.

Moon71 is the first to respond that anything the WSWS/SEP say is fantasy. Even Martin Walsh isn't claiming the CWU are begging for a 10% dividend. That really is a fantasy.

Currently the CWU has got workers absolutely nothing, not even a pay rise. What an achievement.

[tramssirhc]

Typical propaganda with a dash of scare mongering, sprinkled with a touch of bigotry.

What is this fightback? Unofficial walk outs? Tea clubs with tissues? Again still waiting.

How about just turning up to work, sign in sign out, take your break an bring it back. So much less drama than all this bs.

Martin Walsh has saved your job. Martin Walsh has not saved the jobs of the workers most affected by the profit driven method. Keep your nose out.

How many jobs have pwrfc saved????

The CWU isn't doing very well at saving jobs is it.

[postslippete]

Nobody knows exact figures regarding any reduction of workers. RM have suggested that the proposed reforms would lead to fewer than 1,000 voluntary redundancies. Basic maths says that 1,000 full time workers x £30,000 a year = £30 million a year saved, and that is before VR costs. Ironically, the Union have already secured 11,000 staff on permanent full time legacy contracts and with 20,000 new entrants being equalised, where are the potential savings going to come from? Also, if units (like ours) are intending to put duties back in then we must be already short staffed and are therefore spending the money which the company intends to save?

This idea of putting "bums on seats" doesn't fit in with the overall objective that the business only wants to reform the USO to save money. So the question is whether a watered down universal service will be maintained in future? Currently, there is an agreement in place between the CWU and Royal Mail that no compulsory redundancies will occur until the full deployment of these USO reforms which is anticipated to be in late 2026. After the CWU has finished its tinkering and its bureaucracy made to feel important regarding the changes, I suspect RM will simply better “shape” it themselves further down the line. Do we really expect that firm’s and rural’s won’t be expected to be delivering the same way as everyone else in future? Allowing letter delays and poor service has been business as usual at RM which has missed its annual targets for half a decade and have willingly accepted any fines by OfCom as a cost of doing business.

As markets change so do bosses agendas. DK is planning to invest £800 million in a network of 20,000 parcel lockers so that we can compete with the likes of Amazon. How will this investment be paid back? Well of course, it’s the universal service which will be milked dry to help pay for it. Whether you choose to see this glass of milk as half full or half empty is your choice.

[Burghboy]

Don’t know how accurate it is but hidden in there it says 1 in 4 job losses. I remember a few months ago saying I reckoned there will be a 25% cut in staff whist it was being stated they expect 1,000!!!! As I say don’t know whether the above reported figure is accurate but going on how ODM is being touted to work it seems pretty realistic to me.

Don’t think that’s accurate at all, from what I’ve heard most units need to add duties in because of walks being unmanageable. Then firm and rural duties don’t change much. So the most duties that will go is 1 in 4 town duties, however it looks to me like Royal mail are setting up to fail in units that don’t have DPR’s.

Royal mail’s savings forecast with these changes is pie in the sky in my opinion.

Duties could be reinstated but that will not increase the number of workers. It's a 25% reduction in workers however the CWU manipulates the figures and message. It's a great question querying the savings. However the CWU has signed up to workers doing more with less. How the regulator arrived at it's figure is highly questionable when the data was not and still is not correct.

It’s not a 25% reduction in workers, and anyone who is suggesting that is scaremongering whilst ignoring the actual information.

[scotchy1962]

Excellent article from the WSWS/SEP. These pilots are simply the beginning of the wholesale change. The genie is out of the bottle and is not going back in.

We are all adults, and most of us appear to be reasonably sensible and accept that some sort of change has to occur.
So how do you effect change?
Pilots seems to be a sensible approach, to see what does and doesn't work.
We at the coalface have seen what happens when change is imposed and it isn't and still isn't pleasant.
If the change is implemented correctly we should all have manageable workloads, i know that sounds slightly hopeful, but it's what i expect from my union.
We are all still waiting for your alternative, and not just more words or abuse for daring to question you.
If all you have is words then i suggest you all get back into that bottle the genie got out of.

Lets be clear. There is no abuse. Prefacing a response with 'adult' and 'reasonably sensible' is patronising.

Any change should be centred on us and improve our lives. That's the only change that needs to occur. The change being forced on us is simply about less of us doing more to create more profit for the industry. When Martin Walsh talks about an 'incentive scheme' he is simply begging for a share of that profit. Not a fair or proportionate share of the profit we create. It's the crumbs from the table.

We will not be effecting any change because the decisions creating the change were made without us and the profit driven method of working is already decided, planned and ready to introduced. Martin Walsh has dishonestly said that the method cannot be introduced with everything being right. Martin contradicted this on Thursday night admitting the pilots are not right.

The pilots are the prelude to what every workplace will accept. There are no trials or tests. The profit driven method is coming in regardless of what the CWU says, thinks or wants. Manageable workloads do not make profits. Working safely does not make a profit.

We demanded and fought for the policy of renationalisation. That was not given to us. We created that policy through the parliament of the CWU, the annual general meeting. The likes of Martin Walsh believe they do not have to adhere to the demands of workers because they know better. Martin Walsh does not. There is one simple demand of the CWU - to carry out the policy of the members and to achieve renationalisation. That's not an alternative. That is the policy. The 'alternative is the CWU getting into bed with the industry and it's regulator and forcing workers to make bigger profits by doing more, faster with less of us.

"Adult" and "reasonably sensible" aren't there to patronise, they are a factual statement to give context. If it offends you somehow then that's a tragedy i cannot fix.
Your continual banging on about the CWU and what you think is going to happen is slightly annoying, you know like that itch you can't quite reach, and whilst i am sure you believe what you are saying is factual and true i think i will call bullshit!!
Every business set up is there to make money, even charities make money, that's the general idea, i know you are hoping for some sort of marxist/leninist/trotsky type society, but at the moment it doesn't exist nor is it liable too.
You go through what the union does and what we expect, yet when the majority vote something in you cry "foul". That's the problem with living in a democracy i guess, now that is patronising!
Blaming someone else for all your problems is easy, doing something about it is hard, so at the moment you lot are taking the easy option so how about you grow a pair and do something about it instead of creeping about on the internet like some sort of virus.

Come on, you of all the CWU adherents can critique the response better than that.

Hahaha best i could do, and you had no comeback. I am no fan of the CWU and the way they are running it at the moment, be under no illusions if i figure they are corrupt, i will let them know by withdrawing my subs. As we all can.
But your vision is probably worse, plus what you stand for in no way aligns with anything most posties would see.
Having views like you do isn't the most attractive nowadays and while you preach some sort of workers utopia the reality at the moment is that there is no chance of it happening, and we all live in the real world!
I wish you well on your quest and will refrain from more backchat as it's going nowhere.

[Jefferson Starfish]

I don't know why anyone bothers with them. If you all ignore them, with a bit of luck they might just get bored and disappear.

[tramssirhc]

Excellent article from the WSWS/SEP. These pilots are simply the beginning of the wholesale change. The genie is out of the bottle and is not going back in.

We are all adults, and most of us appear to be reasonably sensible and accept that some sort of change has to occur.
So how do you effect change?
Pilots seems to be a sensible approach, to see what does and doesn't work.
We at the coalface have seen what happens when change is imposed and it isn't and still isn't pleasant.
If the change is implemented correctly we should all have manageable workloads, i know that sounds slightly hopeful, but it's what i expect from my union.
We are all still waiting for your alternative, and not just more words or abuse for daring to question you.
If all you have is words then i suggest you all get back into that bottle the genie got out of.

Lets be clear. There is no abuse. Prefacing a response with 'adult' and 'reasonably sensible' is patronising.

Any change should be centred on us and improve our lives. That's the only change that needs to occur. The change being forced on us is simply about less of us doing more to create more profit for the industry. When Martin Walsh talks about an 'incentive scheme' he is simply begging for a share of that profit. Not a fair or proportionate share of the profit we create. It's the crumbs from the table.

We will not be effecting any change because the decisions creating the change were made without us and the profit driven method of working is already decided, planned and ready to introduced. Martin Walsh has dishonestly said that the method cannot be introduced with everything being right. Martin contradicted this on Thursday night admitting the pilots are not right.

The pilots are the prelude to what every workplace will accept. There are no trials or tests. The profit driven method is coming in regardless of what the CWU says, thinks or wants. Manageable workloads do not make profits. Working safely does not make a profit.

We demanded and fought for the policy of renationalisation. That was not given to us. We created that policy through the parliament of the CWU, the annual general meeting. The likes of Martin Walsh believe they do not have to adhere to the demands of workers because they know better. Martin Walsh does not. There is one simple demand of the CWU - to carry out the policy of the members and to achieve renationalisation. That's not an alternative. That is the policy. The 'alternative is the CWU getting into bed with the industry and it's regulator and forcing workers to make bigger profits by doing more, faster with less of us.

"Adult" and "reasonably sensible" aren't there to patronise, they are a factual statement to give context. If it offends you somehow then that's a tragedy i cannot fix.
Your continual banging on about the CWU and what you think is going to happen is slightly annoying, you know like that itch you can't quite reach, and whilst i am sure you believe what you are saying is factual and true i think i will call bullshit!!
Every business set up is there to make money, even charities make money, that's the general idea, i know you are hoping for some sort of marxist/leninist/trotsky type society, but at the moment it doesn't exist nor is it liable too.
You go through what the union does and what we expect, yet when the majority vote something in you cry "foul". That's the problem with living in a democracy i guess, now that is patronising!
Blaming someone else for all your problems is easy, doing something about it is hard, so at the moment you lot are taking the easy option so how about you grow a pair and do something about it instead of creeping about on the internet like some sort of virus.

Come on, you of all the CWU adherents can critique the response better than that.

Hahaha best i could do, and you had no comeback. I am no fan of the CWU and the way they are running it at the moment, be under no illusions if i figure they are corrupt, i will let them know by withdrawing my subs. As we all can.
But your vision is probably worse, plus what you stand for in no way aligns with anything most posties would see.
Having views like you do isn't the most attractive nowadays and while you preach some sort of workers utopia the reality at the moment is that there is no chance of it happening, and we all live in the real world!
I wish you well on your quest and will refrain from more backchat as it's going nowhere.

I doff my cap to you.

[tramssirhc]

Don’t know how accurate it is but hidden in there it says 1 in 4 job losses. I remember a few months ago saying I reckoned there will be a 25% cut in staff whist it was being stated they expect 1,000!!!! As I say don’t know whether the above reported figure is accurate but going on how ODM is being touted to work it seems pretty realistic to me.

Don’t think that’s accurate at all, from what I’ve heard most units need to add duties in because of walks being unmanageable. Then firm and rural duties don’t change much. So the most duties that will go is 1 in 4 town duties, however it looks to me like Royal mail are setting up to fail in units that don’t have DPR’s.

Royal mail’s savings forecast with these changes is pie in the sky in my opinion.

Duties could be reinstated but that will not increase the number of workers. It's a 25% reduction in workers however the CWU manipulates the figures and message. It's a great question querying the savings. However the CWU has signed up to workers doing more with less. How the regulator arrived at it's figure is highly questionable when the data was not and still is not correct.

It’s not a 25% reduction in workers, and anyone who is suggesting that is scaremongering whilst ignoring the actual information.

It absolutely is.

[tramssirhc]

I don't know why anyone bothers with them. If you all ignore them, with a bit of luck they might just get bored and disappear.

Zero chance. We'll be here, fighting on. Long after the CWU has sold out. Never forget what Pullinger said - 'these groups won't be there for you after the dispute'. Pullinger was wrong and the only one not here is him.

[clashcityrocker]

Zero chance. We'll be here, fighting on. Long after the CWU has sold out. Never forget what Pullinger said - 'these groups won't be there for you after the dispute'. Pullinger was wrong and the only one not here is him.

How exactly are you "fighting"?
Apart from a few posts on an internet forum what concrete steps are you taking to save the working class?

Here's a thought: What are you going to do if they don't want to be saved or specifically they don't want to be saved by you?

[tramssirhc]

Zero chance. We'll be here, fighting on. Long after the CWU has sold out. Never forget what Pullinger said - 'these groups won't be there for you after the dispute'. Pullinger was wrong and the only one not here is him.

How exactly are you "fighting"?
Apart from a few posts on an internet forum what concrete steps are you taking to save the working class?

Here's a thought: What are you going to do if they don't want to be saved or specifically they don't want to be saved by you?

You're a CWU adherent. Free yourself.