CWU: Agreement reached on the biggest ever National uplift in Part time contracted hours

[Acca Dacca]

It's for people who fall into one of three groups:

1. Any employee with a temporary variation in contract to work full time, in place on 1 January 2025.

2. Any employee with a temporary variation in contract to work additional part time hours, in place on 1 January 2025.

3. Any employee who joined Royal Mail between 2018 and 2022 who is employed on a 35 hour full time contract.

Thats what I thought *

*With 3 being those on 35 hour contracts doing 37 hours to match the real FTers

Gonna be a lot of disappointed and angry longer term part timers who do OT without the variation contract and think they are getting FT contract.

Myself included.

Think i'll tell RM to stick their OT up their arse

Don't blame the employer. They are just giving Walsh what he wants. Tell the CWU to stick it.

I will blame the employer

I have been part time for nearly 20 years and they have brought in new entrants on more hours rather than make me, and others, up because its cheaper for them to do so

Thats the employers decision to keep me part time - no one elses

The CWU had ample opportunity during those 20 years to sort it. Every six months in fact.

Its ultimately the employers decision so i'll blame who I want. Thanks for your input.

[nuisance]

It is strange the level of criticism when we are offering almost 10% of the workforce a permanent full time contract.

The biggest issue is seniority. It's only RM that holds on to this nonsense as if it is somehow fair. The law states that if you are working regular overtime for over 6 months your contract should be reviewed with a view to increasing contracted hours. "Your contract", not someone else's who happens to have a company start date preceding yours. Since these temporary uplifts were awarded to more senior part timers in our office who rarely-to-never worked over their part time contracted hours, many part timers lower in seniority who'd been working more hours for years have seen what they were earning awarded to someone else on better terms.

[Acca Dacca]

It is strange the level of criticism when we are offering almost 10% of the workforce a permanent full time contract.

The biggest issue is seniority. It's only RM that holds on to this nonsense as if it is somehow fair. The law states that if you are working regular overtime for over 6 months your contract should be reviewed with a view to increasing contracted hours. "Your contract", not someone else's who happens to have a company start date proceeding yours. Since these temporary uplifts were awarded to more senior part timers in our office who rarely-to-never worked over their part time contracted hours, many part timers lower in seniority who'd been working more hours for years have seen what they were earning awarded to someone else on better terms.

Seniority is still the fairest way

Manager cant play favourites then

Some part timers didnt work overtime BECAUSE doing so is what was stopping full time contracts having to be given out in the first place

For years Royal Mail got away with relying on people doing overtime and not having to give out perm contracts meaning not having to pay more holiday and sick pay etc to be fair to the CWU whilst the new system is not by any means perfect they did get the holiday pay/overtime issue changed for the better rather than what it was before

[nuisance]

You're being too generous. The holiday pay thing that the CWU have indeed negotiated an improvement in also falls short of aligning with the law given the BS clauses about over eight hours in set periods.

If you've been working consistently more than your contracted hours for twenty years, more fool you for not pressing for this to be regularly assessed. It should be, it's that simple.

[Acca Dacca]

You're being too generous. The holiday pay thing that the CWU have indeed negotiated an improvement in also falls short of aligning with the law given the BS clauses about over eight hours in set periods.

If you've been working consistently more than your contracted hours for twenty years, more fool you for not pressing for this to be regularly assessed. It should be, it's that simple.

I never said Ive been doing it for 20 years. I said ive been part time for almost that.

RM decided to bring in new entrants on 35 hour contracts rather than make me and others up to 35/37 hours. There is nothing i can do about that. Thats on them.

[Lfc1983]

I always try and engage even when some of the comments are let’s say playing the man not the ball.

These are the facts :

10500 part timers will be offered a permanent uplift in their contracted hours on their current terms and conditions. This is the biggest ever agreed uplift in contracted hours.

1. The vast majority of these 8552 are part timers who will get the opportunity to become full time.

2.The vast majority of these are individuals on a variation of contract who would have only got the variation based on seniority. Some of these have held a variation of contract for over 5 years do you think it would be unfair to then say to that individual we now offering it back to say someone who has since transferred into the office and has more seniority.

3. There is another group who will be offered a chance to move to 37 hours and that is those who were capped at 35 hours following the Four Pillars agreement.

4. In terms of the 35 hour working week the Four pillars said any further reduction had to based on further change to terms and conditions. When the cost of living crisis started the CWU concentrated on pay and in any case Royal Mail imposed the New Entrants terms and conditions which meant that 40 hours was their chosen full time job.

5. Under the USO change there will be a further opportunity for part timers to move to full time as the modelling is showing that an increase of 15 to 20% increase in full time roles.

6., We have agreed to equalise new entrants terms and conditions with a first stage being done within three months of the takeover. There will be no unpaid meal reliefs for old contracts and we will get the new entrants paid meal reliefs.

It is strange the level of criticism when we are offering almost 10% of the workforce a permanent full time contract.

So just for clarification, unless your on some kind of temporary contract variation already or on 35 hours you will not be a part of the groups being made up to full time?

No one in our office has been offered a temporary contract variation and no one seems to be made up to full time.

[Acca Dacca]

I always try and engage even when some of the comments are let’s say playing the man not the ball.

These are the facts :

10500 part timers will be offered a permanent uplift in their contracted hours on their current terms and conditions. This is the biggest ever agreed uplift in contracted hours.

1. The vast majority of these 8552 are part timers who will get the opportunity to become full time.

2.The vast majority of these are individuals on a variation of contract who would have only got the variation based on seniority. Some of these have held a variation of contract for over 5 years do you think it would be unfair to then say to that individual we now offering it back to say someone who has since transferred into the office and has more seniority.

3. There is another group who will be offered a chance to move to 37 hours and that is those who were capped at 35 hours following the Four Pillars agreement.

4. In terms of the 35 hour working week the Four pillars said any further reduction had to based on further change to terms and conditions. When the cost of living crisis started the CWU concentrated on pay and in any case Royal Mail imposed the New Entrants terms and conditions which meant that 40 hours was their chosen full time job.

5. Under the USO change there will be a further opportunity for part timers to move to full time as the modelling is showing that an increase of 15 to 20% increase in full time roles.

6., We have agreed to equalise new entrants terms and conditions with a first stage being done within three months of the takeover. There will be no unpaid meal reliefs for old contracts and we will get the new entrants paid meal reliefs.

It is strange the level of criticism when we are offering almost 10% of the workforce a permanent full time contract.

So just for clarification, unless your on some kind of temporary contract variation already or on 35 hours you will not be a part of the groups being made up to full time?

No one in our office has been offered a temporary contract variation and no one seems to be made up to full time.

Essentially if you are a part timer who has not been doing OT or has been doing it but on a casual basis, even if regular, rather than this sort of ''scheduled attendance'' type variation you are onto plums

[TopperGas]

That's not what Martin Walsh posted last night, according to him it's only those on a mystery contract hardly anybody seems to have head if it, let alone have?

[claretandblue]

There's no way that there's 11k part timers on these variation contracts, most will just be either working extra days or coming in early and booking the extra. I don't think 1 person on here has mentioned being on a variation contract.

[norris9]

It's for people who fall into one of three groups:

1. Any employee with a temporary variation in contract to work full time, in place on 1 January 2025.

2. Any employee with a temporary variation in contract to work additional part time hours, in place on 1 January 2025.

3. Any employee who joined Royal Mail between 2018 and 2022 who is employed on a 35 hour full time contract.

Which completely ignores seniority.

Not true if the temporary variations have been given on seniority

I don't agree with that thinking at all. How can someone essentially overtake someone else on the seniority list because of something they chose to do that the more senior postie didn't choose to take up. This isn't Mario Kart... you shouldn't be allowed to boost up the seniority list because of choices you made, which is what the CWU are allowing temporary variation posties to do. It's totally out of order.

and that said.... temporary variations have potentially NOT been given on seniority in our office. I know other posties that are coming in early when I am more senior to them yet I was never asked if I would like the extra hours before them. I do not know if these posties are officially on a temporary variation contract or just booking the extra hours though.

Others are agreeing with me that they don't quite understand the numbers. 11,000 is a lot of posties if we only have ~80,000 posties on the legacy contracts. How many legacy part timers work for RM as posties? and how many total legacy posties are there? In my office 95%+ are full time.

This should be done on seniority FULL STOP! Any offer of an increase in contracted hours has always been done on seniority - so why change that now?

[Martin Walsh]

Norris this is true.

In the vast majority of cases and we have the information the variation was offered in seniority order.

The question is if the most senior person rejected it 3 years ago and the individual who accepted it should now at the time they could be made full time give it to the more senior person who rejected the offer 3 years ago ! Is that really fair ?

I believe in seniority but it has never been as clear cut as some make it out to be :

Before age discrimination VRs were given to those age 55 to 65 regardless of whether they were more senior than someone below the age of 55.

Prior to the Way Forward Mail Centres had a different seniority list for Drivers and processing, PHGs based on when you either became a driver or a PHG not when you joined Royal Mail.

Before the Way Forward If you transferred to another office you went to the bottom of the seniority list.

Since the Way Forward unless your duty has changed significantly you do not have to surrender it within a resign.

There will still be part timers made up based on seniority but if someone used their seniority previously to get a variation and has work those hours for months and years it goes against all fairness to say we now giving it to a more senior person who did not want it before.

I disagree we have 8552 part timers who have the opportunity to become full time which is the single biggest ever uplift of part timers and the USO will mean even more opportunities for part timers to increase their hours.

[Dexydog]

Basically, the goalposts have been moved.
The union is saying its fair that someone moves down the seniority list because they haven't in the past accepted (or not even been offered in the first place) to up their hours.
That's fair in the unions eyes.
Before they might have small kids and couldn't; now they're older they might be able to.
Any number of other reasons why now would be more appropriate for them now than before.
It was their choice at the time depending on their personal circumstances.
As usual it's being dressed up as a win.
It's a crock of s**t.

[Lfc1983]

Norris this is true.

In the vast majority of cases and we have the information the variation was offered in seniority order.

The question is if the most senior person rejected it 3 years ago and the individual who accepted it should now at the time they could be made full time give it to the more senior person who rejected the offer 3 years ago ! Is that really fair ?

I believe in seniority but it has never been as clear cut as some make it out to be :

Before age discrimination VRs were given to those age 55 to 65 regardless of whether they were more senior than someone below the age of 55.

Prior to the Way Forward Mail Centres had a different seniority list for Drivers and processing, PHGs based on when you either became a driver or a PHG not when you joined Royal Mail.

Before the Way Forward If you transferred to another office you went to the bottom of the seniority list.

Since the Way Forward unless your duty has changed significantly you do not have to surrender it within a resign.

There will still be part timers made up based on seniority but if someone used their seniority previously to get a variation and has work those hours for months and years it goes against all fairness to say we now giving it to a more senior person who did not want it before.

I disagree we have 8552 part timers who have the opportunity to become full time which is the single biggest ever uplift of part timers and the USO will mean even more opportunities for part timers to increase their hours.

In our office we have 1 person eligible in quite a large office because no one has had a variation to their contract. The rest have relied on overtime here and there if there is no overtime ban in place.

How is this fair that people that have been waiting years don't get made up because we never had the chance to have a temporary role.

It's just going to cause an even bigger divide in the work force and lead to more people leaving the union.

[Dexydog]

One of two reasons for this.
1. The union just can't see it.
2. They've made another crap deal and are pretending it's ok.
Either way it's not ok.

[Pidleypoo]

This has caused a bit of chaos in our office.

You’ve got full timers angry that deliveries that were made part time in our last and recent revision could now be occupied by part timers made up to full time.

Their main issue is that if these duties were full time at the time of the repick then they would’ve picked them.

People displaced off deliveries they’d been on for years because it had been made part time.