CWU: Agreement reached on the biggest ever National uplift in Part time contracted hours

[scotchy1962]

That is not my point, if the round is too big now, to extend the shift by an hour a day (5-7 hours a week) means another 3 loops minimum being added, presumably meaning rounds will be taken out and headcount reduced.
11,000 x 5 hours divided by 35 hours =1571 jobs

There's plenty of p/t staff already having to work f/t in order that rounds are prepped and then delivered, I can't see increasing their hours permanently is going to lead to job losses. What it will mean is less o/t payments making it easier for managers and also the SISO data.

I'm with you Topper, i haven't seen a p/t duty in years and all those on p/t contracts have been covering f/t duties for years, why wouldn't they get a upgrade in hrs.
Don't know why the scaremongers have decided that job losses en masse are suddenly going to happen.
Look doesn't matter how the USO goes there has to be a delay between implementation and job losses, they have no idea if they have enough people to deliver the new and revised USO. as they can't deliver it now and we are basically delivering what they expect the new USO to look like, how does making it official change anything.
We actually probably need more people and smaller duties to be able to conform to the new USO within our contracted hrs.

[Acca Dacca]

That is not my point, if the round is too big now, to extend the shift by an hour a day (5-7 hours a week) means another 3 loops minimum being added, presumably meaning rounds will be taken out and headcount reduced.
11,000 x 5 hours divided by 35 hours =1571 jobs

There's plenty of p/t staff already having to work f/t in order that rounds are prepped and then delivered, I can't see increasing their hours permanently is going to lead to job losses. What it will mean is less o/t payments making it easier for managers and also the SISO data.

I'm with you Topper, i haven't seen a p/t duty in years and all those on p/t contracts have been covering f/t duties for years, why wouldn't they get a upgrade in hrs.
Don't know why the scaremongers have decided that job losses en masse are suddenly going to happen.
Look doesn't matter how the USO goes there has to be a delay between implementation and job losses, they have no idea if they have enough people to deliver the new and revised USO. as they can't deliver it now and we are basically delivering what they expect the new USO to look like, how does making it official change anything.
We actually probably need more people and smaller duties to be able to conform to the new USO within our contracted hrs.

From the business side of things the biggest benefit of the reduction in the USO and new way of operating is to reduce headcount costs though

If there wasnt a reduction in the number of employees then there wouldnt be much point changing things

The hope is that most of that reduction is made from a mix of natural attrition and VRs but there will definitely be less people employed with these changes

[A2B]

We don't have FT v PT duties, the delivery is "supposed" to be the same but a PT worker will have some of their walk prepped to even it up

[tramssirhc]

Surely seniority will be used? Why wouldn’t it be?

Because this is a recruitment exercise at the expense of seniority. The CWU believe the senior members won't leave because they're institutionalised. The CWU is wrong. We're leaving and the new hands won't join. Get out of that tinpot Union.

[tramssirhc]

Not sure why people are discussing seniority, the update says ALL part timers have the opportunity to increase hours.

It doesn't and Walsh has sold out seniority in the hope of recruiting the new starters. As a result we're leaving and they won't join. Only the CWU could f**k something up so badly. Get out of that Union.

[norris9]

Not sure why people are discussing seniority, the update says ALL part timers have the opportunity to increase hours.

It doesn't and Walsh has sold out seniority in the hope of recruiting the new starters. As a result we're leaving and they won't join. Only the CWU could f**k something up so badly. Get out of that Union.

To be honest I have no idea what the CWU means as it's not clear enough.... they wrote that ALL 11,000 part timers will get the opportunity to increase their hours....

But they then state "The reference point is that the hours had to be worked up to 1st January 2025". What does this even mean? I know in a recent CWU Live Martin Walsh said something along the lines of PT posties that had worked overtime would be offered this from 1st Jan....so I assume that's what he means. If he does mean that then why has he written that ALL PT will get the opportunity!

He needs to clarify it, as well as clarify how long a PT has had to do this overtime for to qualify. He also needs to clarify why this uplift in hours is not being done on seniority. For example: why would a part timer that has been with the company a month and been doing overtime up to 37 hours get presidence over someone who has just stuck to a 30 hour contract for 7 years?

Just because a PT postie has stuck to their 30 hour contract doesn't mean they want to stay PT. They might have not been asked to come in earlier on overtime. They might have been told the opportunity is there to do overtime but that they'd have to move to a duty that's marked as FT, and many would not have wanted to move to a different duty.

[scotchy1962]

That is not my point, if the round is too big now, to extend the shift by an hour a day (5-7 hours a week) means another 3 loops minimum being added, presumably meaning rounds will be taken out and headcount reduced.
11,000 x 5 hours divided by 35 hours =1571 jobs

There's plenty of p/t staff already having to work f/t in order that rounds are prepped and then delivered, I can't see increasing their hours permanently is going to lead to job losses. What it will mean is less o/t payments making it easier for managers and also the SISO data.

I'm with you Topper, i haven't seen a p/t duty in years and all those on p/t contracts have been covering f/t duties for years, why wouldn't they get a upgrade in hrs.
Don't know why the scaremongers have decided that job losses en masse are suddenly going to happen.
Look doesn't matter how the USO goes there has to be a delay between implementation and job losses, they have no idea if they have enough people to deliver the new and revised USO. as they can't deliver it now and we are basically delivering what they expect the new USO to look like, how does making it official change anything.
We actually probably need more people and smaller duties to be able to conform to the new USO within our contracted hrs.

From the business side of things the biggest benefit of the reduction in the USO and new way of operating is to reduce headcount costs though

If there wasnt a reduction in the number of employees then there wouldnt be much point changing things

The hope is that most of that reduction is made from a mix of natural attrition and VRs but there will definitely be less people employed with these changes

Understand exactly what you are saying, problem is the parcels are still at such a high level that what we have now can't be completed.
They are actively taking on more and more parcels thinking it will all work out, it won't, simple common sense says the more work you have the more hours required to complete.
How can they hope for a reduction in employees if they can't cope at the moment?
Innovative shift patterns only work if the job stays the same and it isn't and won't while you keep taking on more work.
USO or no USO it won't matter.

[SpacePhoenix]

Understand exactly what you are saying, problem is the parcels are still at such a high level that what we have now can't be completed.
They are actively taking on more and more parcels thinking it will all work out, it won't, simple common sense says the more work you have the more hours required to complete.
How can they hope for a reduction in employees if they can't cope at the moment?
Innovative shift patterns only work if the job stays the same and it isn't and won't while you keep taking on more work.
USO or no USO it won't matter.

Don't forget that there's the potential merger of PF into RM on the cards. If that does take place they could take all the SDs and the larger parcels

[scotchy1962]

Understand exactly what you are saying, problem is the parcels are still at such a high level that what we have now can't be completed.
They are actively taking on more and more parcels thinking it will all work out, it won't, simple common sense says the more work you have the more hours required to complete.
How can they hope for a reduction in employees if they can't cope at the moment?
Innovative shift patterns only work if the job stays the same and it isn't and won't while you keep taking on more work.
USO or no USO it won't matter.

Don't forget that there's the potential merger of PF into RM on the cards. If that does take place they could take all the SDs and the larger parcels

Yes been hearing that for a while, lets hope Dan the man is smart enough to merge them and get some of the bulk parcels out of our systems.
But like we say, it hasn't happened yet!

[tramssirhc]

Not sure why people are discussing seniority, the update says ALL part timers have the opportunity to increase hours.

It doesn't and Walsh has sold out seniority in the hope of recruiting the new starters. As a result we're leaving and they won't join. Only the CWU could f**k something up so badly. Get out of that Union.

To be honest I have no idea what the CWU means as it's not clear enough.... they wrote that ALL 11,000 part timers will get the opportunity to increase their hours....

But they then state "The reference point is that the hours had to be worked up to 1st January 2025". What does this even mean? I know in a recent CWU Live Martin Walsh said something along the lines of PT posties that had worked overtime would be offered this from 1st Jan....so I assume that's what he means. If he does mean that then why has he written that ALL PT will get the opportunity!

He needs to clarify it, as well as clarify how long a PT has had to do this overtime for to qualify. He also needs to clarify why this uplift in hours is not being done on seniority. For example: why would a part timer that has been with the company a month and been doing overtime up to 37 hours get presidence over someone who has just stuck to a 30 hour contract for 7 years?

Just because a PT postie has stuck to their 30 hour contract doesn't mean they want to stay PT. They might have not been asked to come in earlier on overtime. They might have been told the opportunity is there to do overtime but that they'd have to move to a duty that's marked as FT, and many would not have wanted to move to a different duty.

It's not hard is it? Say the word seniority. That's all it needs. But just like renationalisation the CWU says one thing and does the exact opposite. If your energy company behaved like the CWU you'd f**k it off. Do yourself a favour and f**k that union off.

[yellowbelly]

To be honest I have no idea what the CWU means as it's not clear enough.... they wrote that ALL 11,000 part timers will get the opportunity to increase their hours....

But they then state "The reference point is that the hours had to be worked up to 1st January 2025". What does this even mean? I know in a recent CWU Live Martin Walsh said something along the lines of PT posties that had worked overtime would be offered this from 1st Jan....so I assume that's what he means. If he does mean that then why has he written that ALL PT will get the opportunity!

He needs to clarify it, as well as clarify how long a PT has had to do this overtime for to qualify. He also needs to clarify why this uplift in hours is not being done on seniority. For example: why would a part timer that has been with the company a month and been doing overtime up to 37 hours get presidence over someone who has just stuck to a 30 hour contract for 7 years?

Just because a PT postie has stuck to their 30 hour contract doesn't mean they want to stay PT. They might have not been asked to come in earlier on overtime. They might have been told the opportunity is there to do overtime but that they'd have to move to a duty that's marked as FT, and many would not have wanted to move to a different duty.

If you read the letter attached along with the USO pilots LTB 398/24 posted on another thread and not the tweet, at the moment it's PT'ers employed on legacy contracts who'll potentially qualify - not the 'one month in' newbie you've referred to.

1. Resolving the Part Time up to Full Time Resourcing Issue

• Any employee employed on “legacy Terms & Conditions” (i.e., Those employed before December
2022) currently completing a role through a temporary variation and/or offered from January 2025 an
increase in contracted hours to part or full-time hours will have the opportunity to accept that role on
a permanent basis on their legacy Terms & Conditions. This would take effect for those in position on
1st January 2025. There are approximately 11,000 part timers who will potentially benefit from this
move.

[Rommagic]

I think it will be a struggle getting 5,000 pt staff too go full time let alone 11, 000.

[Lfc1983]

It's for people who fall into one of three groups:

1. Any employee with a temporary variation in contract to work full time, in place on 1 January 2025.

2. Any employee with a temporary variation in contract to work additional part time hours, in place on 1 January 2025.

3. Any employee who joined Royal Mail between 2018 and 2022 who is employed on a 35 hour full time contract.

[Acca Dacca]

It's for people who fall into one of three groups:

1. Any employee with a temporary variation in contract to work full time, in place on 1 January 2025.

2. Any employee with a temporary variation in contract to work additional part time hours, in place on 1 January 2025.

3. Any employee who joined Royal Mail between 2018 and 2022 who is employed on a 35 hour full time contract.

Thats what I thought *

*With 3 being those on 35 hour contracts doing 37 hours to match the real FTers

Gonna be a lot of disappointed and angry longer term part timers who do OT without the variation contract and think they are getting FT contract.

Myself included.

Think i'll tell RM to stick their OT up their arse

[norris9]

Just to clarify what a 'temporary variation' is.... is it for example - where a PT postie is working a 37 hour week, but they are on a 30 hour a week contract?

If so, I am surprised there's 11,000 legacy posties currently doing that. How many posties are in the country? 100,000?

+ how long will you have had to been working with a 'temporary variation' to qualify?


Pissed that there's been no CWU employee on here answering our questions, no response from the CWU on Twitter/X either.

They need to explain why seniority has gone out the window.

If they are screwing thousands of us over by doing this then I hope any voluntary redundancy process ignores seniority too.