LTB 312/24 – SISO Overtime Management – Business Recovery, Transformation & Growth Agreement (Appendix 5 – Data Use and Performance Management)

[Barnacle]

So Piece work or Price work then?
That's sure to go down well with the vast majority of the CWU and it's members.

You asked for an alternative, I’ve given you two.

[Tman]

You seem to make a habit of this" I've already answered etc etc" type of response, but if those suggestions or "answers" are nonsensical, non-workable, non-starters, whatever, then you haven't answered anything at all.
Do you have any realistic suggestions for (what you think is an issue of) the incompatibility of SISO and job-and-knock in the same shift, or not?

[SpacePhoenix]

You seem to make a habit of this" I've already answered etc etc" type of response, but if those suggestions or "answers" are nonsensical, non-workable, non-starters, whatever, then you haven't answered anything at all.
Do you have any realistic suggestions for (what you think is an issue of) the incompatibility of SISO and job-and-knock in the same shift, or not?

What incompatibility? It'll just eliminate something which was meant to have been eliminated years ago

[Barnacle]

You seem to make a habit of this" I've already answered etc etc" type of response, but if those suggestions or "answers" are nonsensical, non-workable, non-starters, whatever, then you haven't answered anything at all.
Do you have any realistic suggestions for (what you think is an issue of) the incompatibility of SISO and job-and-knock in the same shift, or not?

What on earth is ‘job and knock in the same shift’? Is that ghosting?

If you are meaning someone doing their ‘overtime’ within their contracted hours and finishing at finish time, no one should be doing that. That’s not what I’ve been talking about.

[Smoothbackground]

You seem to make a habit of this" I've already answered etc etc" type of response, but if those suggestions or "answers" are nonsensical, non-workable, non-starters, whatever, then you haven't answered anything at all.
Do you have any realistic suggestions for (what you think is an issue of) the incompatibility of SISO and job-and-knock in the same shift, or not?

What on earth is ‘job and knock in the same shift’? Is that ghosting?

If you are meaning someone doing their ‘overtime’ within their contracted hours and finishing at finish time, no one should be doing that. That’s not what I’ve been talking about.

“Job and knock in the same shift” is precisely what you are proposing! You are proposing that any “shift overtime” be for a pre-set amount for a certain quantity of work, eg, two hours, with you being able to bugger off home early, before the two hours have elapsed, if you manage to whizz round and get it done quicker. I’m new to RM and don’t know my arse from my elbow, obvs, but isn’t that ghosting?

[TopperGas]

You seem to make a habit of this" I've already answered etc etc" type of response, but if those suggestions or "answers" are nonsensical, non-workable, non-starters, whatever, then you haven't answered anything at all.
Do you have any realistic suggestions for (what you think is an issue of) the incompatibility of SISO and job-and-knock in the same shift, or not?

What on earth is ‘job and knock in the same shift’? Is that ghosting?

If you are meaning someone doing their ‘overtime’ within their contracted hours and finishing at finish time, no one should be doing that. That’s not what I’ve been talking about.

“Job and knock in the same shift” is precisely what you are proposing! You are proposing that any “shift overtime” be for a pre-set amount for a certain quantity of work, eg, two hours, with you being able to bugger off home early, before the two hours have elapsed, if you manage to whizz round and get it done quicker. I’m new to RM and don’t know my arse from my elbow, obvs, but isn’t that ghosting?

I thought ghosting was doing, say, doing 1 hrs OT during the same time you are doing your own dut i.e if your duty hours are 7am to 3pm, you book 1 hours OT starting at 2pm. Job and knock is different as OT would start at 3pm and be finished by 4pm but you'd be paid until 2 hours so should finish at 4pm.

[Barnacle]

You seem to make a habit of this" I've already answered etc etc" type of response, but if those suggestions or "answers" are nonsensical, non-workable, non-starters, whatever, then you haven't answered anything at all.
Do you have any realistic suggestions for (what you think is an issue of) the incompatibility of SISO and job-and-knock in the same shift, or not?

What on earth is ‘job and knock in the same shift’? Is that ghosting?

If you are meaning someone doing their ‘overtime’ within their contracted hours and finishing at finish time, no one should be doing that. That’s not what I’ve been talking about.

“Job and knock in the same shift” is precisely what you are proposing! You are proposing that any “shift overtime” be for a pre-set amount for a certain quantity of work, eg, two hours, with you being able to bugger off home early, before the two hours have elapsed, if you manage to whizz round and get it done quicker. I’m new to RM and don’t know my arse from my elbow, obvs, but isn’t that ghosting?

I thought ghosting was doing, say, doing 1 hrs OT during the same time you are doing your own dut i.e if your duty hours are 7am to 3pm, you book 1 hours OT starting at 2pm. Job and knock is different as OT would start at 3pm and be finished by 4pm but you'd be paid until 2 hours so should finish at 4pm.

My definition of ghosting is the same as yours > completing your OT within your regular shift.

[Tman]

I never mentioned ghosting. "Job and knock" is being offered say, two hours O/T, doing the task in one hour and going home, but still claiming the two hours.

[Smoothbackground]

I mentioned ghosting to describe the solution proposed by Barnacle. Whether ghosting is or isn’t the right label to describe it, the practice of giving a set number of hours of OT for a certain quantity of work (eg 10 tracked items delivered equating to an hour’s OT) is fraudulent as it results in the employee being paid for more hours of OT than they have performed. I do appreciate the need for there to be an incentive to undertake OT — for us on new contracts we have x1.25 pay for OT, so it balances it out quite nicely and there is already an incentive for us — but any solution needs to be above board, transparent and honestly done.

[Barnacle]

When someone is sent home ‘4 hours early’ of their contracted hours and the manager makes it all okay with SISO because he wants to reward a favourite or something or other, that can also be described as fraudulent.

[Jb1969]

When someone is sent home ‘4 hours early’ of their contracted hours and the manager makes it all okay with SISO because he wants to reward a favourite or something or other, that can also be described as fraudulent.

No, that’s ghosting!

[Smoothbackground]

When someone is sent home ‘4 hours early’ of their contracted hours and the manager makes it all okay with SISO because he wants to reward a favourite or something or other, that can also be described as fraudulent.

No, fraudulent is where something is done with an intention to deceive, eg, perhaps telling me to leave early but not to clock out so the paperwork doesn’t show a discrepancy. That isn’t what occurred. I clocked out when leaving early. The manager was well within the bounds of his managerial discretion and delegated decision-making authority to allow me to go early — it happens every day when people feign toothache, gut ache, hangover, etc, and then leave work early and still get paid in full. The manager was perfectly entitled to allow me to leave early as a one-off/rare occurrence by way of a reward for being so helpful during the summer leave period. It is called incentivising your staff. Good managers like our DOM know how to use a bit of carrot and stick.

[Tman]

There must be a million reasons why someone goes before the end of their shift and it's not fraudulent, but claiming money (by saying you've been working when you know you haven't) can have no excuses or reasons.
Fraud, pure and simple, and many have been sacked for it over the years.

[Barnacle]

When someone is sent home ‘4 hours early’ of their contracted hours and the manager makes it all okay with SISO because he wants to reward a favourite or something or other, that can also be described as fraudulent.

No, fraudulent is where something is done with an intention to deceive, eg, perhaps telling me to leave early but not to clock out so the paperwork doesn’t show a discrepancy. That isn’t what occurred. I clocked out when leaving early. The manager was well within the bounds of his managerial discretion and delegated decision-making authority to allow me to go early — it happens every day when people feign toothache, gut ache, hangover, etc, and then leave work early and still get paid in full. The manager was perfectly entitled to allow me to leave early as a one-off/rare occurrence by way of a reward for being so helpful during the summer leave period. It is called incentivising your staff. Good managers like our DOM know how to use a bit of carrot and stick.

The manager allowed you to ghost four hours.

[Smoothbackground]

When someone is sent home ‘4 hours early’ of their contracted hours and the manager makes it all okay with SISO because he wants to reward a favourite or something or other, that can also be described as fraudulent.

No, fraudulent is where something is done with an intention to deceive, eg, perhaps telling me to leave early but not to clock out so the paperwork doesn’t show a discrepancy. That isn’t what occurred. I clocked out when leaving early. The manager was well within the bounds of his managerial discretion and delegated decision-making authority to allow me to go early — it happens every day when people feign toothache, gut ache, hangover, etc, and then leave work early and still get paid in full. The manager was perfectly entitled to allow me to leave early as a one-off/rare occurrence by way of a reward for being so helpful during the summer leave period. It is called incentivising your staff. Good managers like our DOM know how to use a bit of carrot and stick.

The manager allowed you to ghost four hours.

He did no such thing. You’re just jealous anyway