Big increase in recruitment

[postslippete]

Simple really. They're taking on new staff because OFCOM have told them to improve the service. In 6 months they go back to OFCOM and say we're nearly bankrupt because of trying to fulfill the USO. OFCOM says oooh well let's reduce the USO asap to 5 days. Yes I'm cynical

Bankruptcy due trying to meet the current USO is a highly likely prospect though, no need for accusations of conspiracies or cynical thinking to arrive at that conclusion, just common sense.

Your common sense is not a great idea to build conclusions. Why not just look at the facts instead - have you actually seen the accounts? They aren't going bankrupt anytime soon

[nuisance]

Anyone with with half a brain can see the 6 day USO is an utterly pointless anachronism... unnecessary, costly and hugely inefficient to implement.

The only reason the self serving leaches that are the CWU want it to remain in place is because they're worried about their money for nothing gravy train from union subs being reduced as a result of a more streamlined business that would come about through a reduction in the USO, the CWU want RM to remain a bloated, inefficient company forced to retain outdated working practices all in order to meet the requirements of an increasingly pointless and irrelevant service commitment.

It's a bit like saying BT should still be forced to retain the infrastructure and network and staffing levels to have a working telephone box on every single street corner.

Well I have more than half a brain and if people had still been using and paying for phone boxes, then yes, BT should have been forced to provide them, it just happened that nobody did still use phone boxes. There is still shedloads of mail. Mail that senders have paid plenty for. It's not pointless or irrelevant to uphold standards that were successfully upheld before the vastly streamlined prep, reduced workforce by vastly lengthening walks, and the technological improvements. As long as people are still paying for and using the service, and that money is going to the company, the company should fulfill its obligations, do it's bleeding job and do it properly. As long as it fails to then it's only heading in a downwards direction and you don't address that trajectory by saying "everybody just embrace lower standards (but BTW the prices will keep going up)".

As for the point of the thread, yes, we've finally got more workers, but few can ever complete a duty these days.

[postslippete]

Anyone with with half a brain can see the 6 day USO is an utterly pointless anachronism... unnecessary, costly and hugely inefficient to implement.

The only reason the self serving leaches that are the CWU want it to remain in place is because they're worried about their money for nothing gravy train from union subs being reduced as a result of a more streamlined business that would come about through a reduction in the USO, the CWU want RM to remain a bloated, inefficient company forced to retain outdated working practices all in order to meet the requirements of an increasingly pointless and irrelevant service commitment.

Thought that Dave Ward actually advocated a 5 day USO? No one with less than half a brain would advocate a reduced USO if it meant that they would lose their job unless RM were to offer considerable compensation for doing so, and they really should do because the group has plenty of money invested in its assets......

[Basildon Bond]

I don't think I will ever really understand how the CWU deal with RM. I mean RM want to reduce the USO - OK, makes sense to them. RM save money. But surely it's the CWU's job to go to RM and ask "what will that reduction look like for the workers?". The CWU should be pinning down and working out for us what a reduction will look like. The CWU should have a information from RM and work together to construct a picture of the future of RM for say, the next five years. Once (sort of) happy then they should wait while RM push the government for a reduction (if required). If RM get it then the CWU should work with RM and the workers to implement the changes and help paint the picture of the near-term future of RM and what changes from us are needed and what sweeteners, if any, we may get as part of the changes.

Currently the CWU always seems to be on the outside throwing rocks at anything RM wants or needs which is neither where they should be nor what they should be doing. Then, at the 10th hour the CWU bang a war drum moaning about RM; at the 11th hour they say it's "not on, we don't like it" or similar. And then the changes go through in a lumpy and disruptive way. No one wins 100% (not even RM) and the workers are the last to know but also the ones having to deal with everything required. We moan on here or in the office but carry on because we hope it's the last time and cannot see the bigger picture. I do think the board and shareholders at RM are squeezing as much money out of it as possible but if the workers had a picture of the future and common goals at least we could see the path in front of us and pull together to achieve those aims.

The CWU should be part of the change management process early on and try to get the workers the best possible deal.

[Mike G]

Anyone with with half a brain can see the 6 day USO is an utterly pointless anachronism... unnecessary, costly and hugely inefficient to implement.

The only reason the self serving leaches that are the CWU want it to remain in place is because they're worried about their money for nothing gravy train from union subs being reduced as a result of a more streamlined business that would come about through a reduction in the USO, the CWU want RM to remain a bloated, inefficient company forced to retain outdated working practices all in order to meet the requirements of an increasingly pointless and irrelevant service commitment.

It's a bit like saying BT should still be forced to retain the infrastructure and network and staffing levels to have a working telephone box on every single street corner.

Well I have more than half a brain and if people had still been using and paying for phone boxes, then yes, BT should have been forced to provide them, it just happened that nobody did still use phone boxes. There is still shedloads of mail. Mail that senders have paid plenty for. It's not pointless or irrelevant to uphold standards that were successfully upheld before the vastly streamlined prep, reduced workforce by vastly lengthening walks, and the technological improvements. As long as people are still paying for and using the service, and that money is going to the company, the company should fulfill its obligations, do it's bleeding job and do it properly. As long as it fails to then it's only heading in a downwards direction and you don't address that trajectory by saying "everybody just embrace lower standards (but BTW the prices will keep going up)".

As for the point of the thread, yes, we've finally got more workers, but few can ever complete a duty these days.

Can I advise you to go and do a bit of research into letter volumes over the last 10 years...

[Mike G]

Anyone with with half a brain can see the 6 day USO is an utterly pointless anachronism... unnecessary, costly and hugely inefficient to implement.

The only reason the self serving leaches that are the CWU want it to remain in place is because they're worried about their money for nothing gravy train from union subs being reduced as a result of a more streamlined business that would come about through a reduction in the USO, the CWU want RM to remain a bloated, inefficient company forced to retain outdated working practices all in order to meet the requirements of an increasingly pointless and irrelevant service commitment.

Thought that Dave Ward actually advocated a 5 day USO? No one with less than half a brain would advocate a reduced USO if it meant that they would lose their job unless RM were to offer considerable compensation for doing so, and they really should do because the group has plenty of money invested in its assets......

Even if redundancy was offered on absolute minimal terms I'm confident it would still be heavily oversubscribed as has already been demonstrated with recent rounds of VR.

This is why the union are just self-serving and not acting in the best interests of its membership, the CWU wants the workforce to remain as large as possible (for the subs income) rather than acknowledging that plenty of staff would accept VR and the business would be a more streamlined, efficient and profitable operation, helping to ensure job security and decent pay and T&C's for the remaining workforce.

[Mike G]

Simple really. They're taking on new staff because OFCOM have told them to improve the service. In 6 months they go back to OFCOM and say we're nearly bankrupt because of trying to fulfill the USO. OFCOM says oooh well let's reduce the USO asap to 5 days. Yes I'm cynical

Bankruptcy due trying to meet the current USO is a highly likely prospect though, no need for accusations of conspiracies or cynical thinking to arrive at that conclusion, just common sense.

Your common sense is not a great idea to build conclusions. Why not just look at the facts instead - have you actually seen the accounts? They aren't going bankrupt anytime soon

The only reason RM aren't already in much deeper financial trouble is due to the effective cross subsidy from the more profitable arms of IDS, mainly GLS.

Perhaps you need to follow your own advice and take a closer look at the accounts.

[postslippete]

The only reason RM aren't already in much deeper financial trouble is due to the effective cross subsidy from the more profitable arms of IDS, mainly GLS.

Perhaps you need to follow your own advice and take a closer look at the accounts.

The company deliberately chose NOT to cross-subsidise from GLS!! It's a very deliberate decision to make the USO look financially unviable.

And Royal Mail aren't in as much financial trouble as you think and we would be a lot better off if wealthy shareholders didn't extract billions of pounds out of the company during the last decade. If you have worked at this company for any length of time, you will be aware that our previous profits allowed us to actually buy GLS (which was then German Parcel) in 1999 amongst many other courier companies in Europe and the US.

Last year the group as a whole were still sitting on retained earnings of £3.8 billion and liquidity of £1.7 billion. So there is money there. And when you look beyond the dramatic headlines of the £1 billion loss in 2022-23 (with £200 million loss due to strike action), most of this related to impairment charges, so the actual adjusted loss across the group was just £71 million for 2022-23. That makes a lot of sense because in that year alone the actual revenue across IDS only decreased by 5%.

The only reason why Royal Mail wants rid of the USO is not because it is in any financial trouble but because it wants to make even more profit. And they will because they have "righsized" the business in the last few years and given posties bigger rounds and the deal ensures that there is less sick pay which cost the business £200 million plus they are recruiting staff on less pay. Where do you think the bulk of our future profits are likely to go? I've left you a clue.

[postslippete]

Even if redundancy was offered on absolute minimal terms I'm confident it would still be heavily oversubscribed as has already been demonstrated with recent rounds of VR.

This is why the union are just self-serving and not acting in the best interests of its membership, the CWU wants the workforce to remain as large as possible (for the subs income) rather than acknowledging that plenty of staff would accept VR and the business would be a more streamlined, efficient and profitable operation, helping to ensure job security and decent pay and T&C's for the remaining workforce.

Maybe, but it's really not that significant anyway because the government is still committed to a 6 day Universal Service Obligation

[Mike G]

Even if redundancy was offered on absolute minimal terms I'm confident it would still be heavily oversubscribed as has already been demonstrated with recent rounds of VR.

This is why the union are just self-serving and not acting in the best interests of its membership, the CWU wants the workforce to remain as large as possible (for the subs income) rather than acknowledging that plenty of staff would accept VR and the business would be a more streamlined, efficient and profitable operation, helping to ensure job security and decent pay and T&C's for the remaining workforce.

Maybe, but it's really not that significant anyway because the government is still committed to a 6 day Universal Service Obligation

So you take the government and politicians at their word do you?(on anything they say)

Thats an interesting position to adopt

[nuisance]

Can I advise you to go and do a bit of research into letter volumes over the last 10 years...

Oh there's a statistic to support whatever anyone wants it to. I look at enough bleeding letters every day to know that they really all haven't disappeared at all. Letter volumes have declined, hence justifying the increased walking distance but your analogy comparing our situation to the phone one is utterly daft. Our office is piled up with letters today and it sure is not because no one's sending them anymore, it's because they are sending them, they're paying RM to deliver them as they've always done and now RM is trying to weasel out of getting on with it. It's piss poor, nothing less.

[Mike G]

The only reason RM aren't already in much deeper financial trouble is due to the effective cross subsidy from the more profitable arms of IDS, mainly GLS.

Perhaps you need to follow your own advice and take a closer look at the accounts.

The company deliberately chose NOT to cross-subsidise from GLS!! It's a very deliberate decision to make the USO look financially unviable.

And Royal Mail aren't in as much financial trouble as you think and we would be a lot better off if wealthy shareholders didn't extract billions of pounds out of the company during the last decade. If you have worked at this company for any length of time, you will be aware that our previous profits allowed us to actually buy GLS (which was then German Parcel) in 1999 amongst many other courier companies in Europe and the US.

Last year the group as a whole were still sitting on retained earnings of £3.8 billion and liquidity of £1.7 billion. So there is money there. And when you look beyond the dramatic headlines of the £1 billion loss in 2022-23 (with £200 million loss due to strike action), most of this related to impairment charges, so the actual adjusted loss across the group was just £71 million for 2022-23. That makes a lot of sense because in that year alone the actual revenue across IDS only decreased by 5%.

The only reason why Royal Mail wants rid of the USO is not because it is in any financial trouble but because it wants to make even more profit. And they will because they have "righsized" the business in the last few years and given posties bigger rounds and the deal ensures that there is less sick pay which cost the business £200 million plus they are recruiting staff on less pay. Where do you think the bulk of our future profits are likely to go? I've left you a clue.

Whichever way you try and spin it there is one indisputable fact, and that is letter volumes have been dropping consistently for at least 10 years now, probably more like 20 years, they're down 25% in just the last 4 years alone.

It makes no sense to be covering the same ground 6 days a week with fewer and fewer letters, especially when the vast majority of that letters mail doesn't require next day delivery.

I'm not disputing the job is tough, tougher than its ever been, but that's entirely due to your precious 6 day USO making it so.

To my mind the most sensible option is separating the letters and the parcels side of the deliveries and each round receives their letter delivery every other day, that way the letters postie is covering the ground with a more worthwhile volume of letters for each address and doesn't have to deal with the time consuming pkts, likewise the parcels posties can concentrate on just delivering parcels with the hassle of letters as well.

[pieoftheday]

The only reason RM aren't already in much deeper financial trouble is due to the effective cross subsidy from the more profitable arms of IDS, mainly GLS.

Perhaps you need to follow your own advice and take a closer look at the accounts.

The company deliberately chose NOT to cross-subsidise from GLS!! It's a very deliberate decision to make the USO look financially unviable.

And Royal Mail aren't in as much financial trouble as you think and we would be a lot better off if wealthy shareholders didn't extract billions of pounds out of the company during the last decade. If you have worked at this company for any length of time, you will be aware that our previous profits allowed us to actually buy GLS (which was then German Parcel) in 1999 amongst many other courier companies in Europe and the US.

Last year the group as a whole were still sitting on retained earnings of £3.8 billion and liquidity of £1.7 billion. So there is money there. And when you look beyond the dramatic headlines of the £1 billion loss in 2022-23 (with £200 million loss due to strike action), most of this related to impairment charges, so the actual adjusted loss across the group was just £71 million for 2022-23. That makes a lot of sense because in that year alone the actual revenue across IDS only decreased by 5%.

The only reason why Royal Mail wants rid of the USO is not because it is in any financial trouble but because it wants to make even more profit. And they will because they have "righsized" the business in the last few years and given posties bigger rounds and the deal ensures that there is less sick pay which cost the business £200 million plus they are recruiting staff on less pay. Where do you think the bulk of our future profits are likely to go? I've left you a clue.

Whichever way you try and spin it there is one indisputable fact, and that is letter volumes have been dropping consistently for at least 10 years now, probably more like 20 years, they're down 25% in just the last 4 years alone.

It makes no sense to be covering the same ground 6 days a week with fewer and fewer letters, especially when the vast majority of that letters mail doesn't require next day delivery.

I'm not disputing the job is tough, tougher than its ever been, but that's entirely due to your precious 6 day USO making it so.

To my mind the most sensible option is separating the letters and the parcels side of the deliveries and each round receives their letter delivery every other day, that way the letters postie is covering the ground with a more worthwhile volume of letters for each address and doesn't have to deal with the time consuming pkts, likewise the parcels posties can concentrate on just delivering parcels with the hassle of letters as well.

When you say packets do you mean.shoe box size and bigger? If so yeah take them.off the delivery postie, however if letter delivery including small packets.went 3 days it wouldn’t current be possible . We can just about complete if our large pkts are taken off us now. Imagine 2 days worth of packets and letters and d2ds, not a cocking chance as things stand. And if you gave all the small pkts to a van driver,haha fxckin madness

[Mike G]

The only reason RM aren't already in much deeper financial trouble is due to the effective cross subsidy from the more profitable arms of IDS, mainly GLS.

Perhaps you need to follow your own advice and take a closer look at the accounts.

The company deliberately chose NOT to cross-subsidise from GLS!! It's a very deliberate decision to make the USO look financially unviable.

And Royal Mail aren't in as much financial trouble as you think and we would be a lot better off if wealthy shareholders didn't extract billions of pounds out of the company during the last decade. If you have worked at this company for any length of time, you will be aware that our previous profits allowed us to actually buy GLS (which was then German Parcel) in 1999 amongst many other courier companies in Europe and the US.

Last year the group as a whole were still sitting on retained earnings of £3.8 billion and liquidity of £1.7 billion. So there is money there. And when you look beyond the dramatic headlines of the £1 billion loss in 2022-23 (with £200 million loss due to strike action), most of this related to impairment charges, so the actual adjusted loss across the group was just £71 million for 2022-23. That makes a lot of sense because in that year alone the actual revenue across IDS only decreased by 5%.

The only reason why Royal Mail wants rid of the USO is not because it is in any financial trouble but because it wants to make even more profit. And they will because they have "righsized" the business in the last few years and given posties bigger rounds and the deal ensures that there is less sick pay which cost the business £200 million plus they are recruiting staff on less pay. Where do you think the bulk of our future profits are likely to go? I've left you a clue.

Whichever way you try and spin it there is one indisputable fact, and that is letter volumes have been dropping consistently for at least 10 years now, probably more like 20 years, they're down 25% in just the last 4 years alone.

It makes no sense to be covering the same ground 6 days a week with fewer and fewer letters, especially when the vast majority of that letters mail doesn't require next day delivery.

I'm not disputing the job is tough, tougher than its ever been, but that's entirely due to your precious 6 day USO making it so.

To my mind the most sensible option is separating the letters and the parcels side of the deliveries and each round receives their letter delivery every other day, that way the letters postie is covering the ground with a more worthwhile volume of letters for each address and doesn't have to deal with the time consuming pkts, likewise the parcels posties can concentrate on just delivering parcels with the hassle of letters as well.

When you say packets do you mean.shoe box size and bigger? If so yeah take them.off the delivery postie, however if letter delivery including small packets.went 3 days it wouldn’t current be possible . We can just about complete if our large pkts are taken off us now. Imagine 2 days worth of packets and letters and d2ds, not a cocking chance as things stand. And if you gave all the small pkts to a van driver,haha fxckin madness

Basically anything that doesn't fit through a standard letterbox.

I just think either side of the job, pkts or letters, would be so much easier done separately. It's the combination of delivering letters and parcels all at the same time that make the job such an utter ball ache.

[pieoftheday]

The only reason RM aren't already in much deeper financial trouble is due to the effective cross subsidy from the more profitable arms of IDS, mainly GLS.

Perhaps you need to follow your own advice and take a closer look at the accounts.

The company deliberately chose NOT to cross-subsidise from GLS!! It's a very deliberate decision to make the USO look financially unviable.

And Royal Mail aren't in as much financial trouble as you think and we would be a lot better off if wealthy shareholders didn't extract billions of pounds out of the company during the last decade. If you have worked at this company for any length of time, you will be aware that our previous profits allowed us to actually buy GLS (which was then German Parcel) in 1999 amongst many other courier companies in Europe and the US.

Last year the group as a whole were still sitting on retained earnings of £3.8 billion and liquidity of £1.7 billion. So there is money there. And when you look beyond the dramatic headlines of the £1 billion loss in 2022-23 (with £200 million loss due to strike action), most of this related to impairment charges, so the actual adjusted loss across the group was just £71 million for 2022-23. That makes a lot of sense because in that year alone the actual revenue across IDS only decreased by 5%.

The only reason why Royal Mail wants rid of the USO is not because it is in any financial trouble but because it wants to make even more profit. And they will because they have "righsized" the business in the last few years and given posties bigger rounds and the deal ensures that there is less sick pay which cost the business £200 million plus they are recruiting staff on less pay. Where do you think the bulk of our future profits are likely to go? I've left you a clue.

Whichever way you try and spin it there is one indisputable fact, and that is letter volumes have been dropping consistently for at least 10 years now, probably more like 20 years, they're down 25% in just the last 4 years alone.

It makes no sense to be covering the same ground 6 days a week with fewer and fewer letters, especially when the vast majority of that letters mail doesn't require next day delivery.

I'm not disputing the job is tough, tougher than its ever been, but that's entirely due to your precious 6 day USO making it so.

To my mind the most sensible option is separating the letters and the parcels side of the deliveries and each round receives their letter delivery every other day, that way the letters postie is covering the ground with a more worthwhile volume of letters for each address and doesn't have to deal with the time consuming pkts, likewise the parcels posties can concentrate on just delivering parcels with the hassle of letters as well.

When you say packets do you mean.shoe box size and bigger? If so yeah take them.off the delivery postie, however if letter delivery including small packets.went 3 days it wouldn’t current be possible . We can just about complete if our large pkts are taken off us now. Imagine 2 days worth of packets and letters and d2ds, not a cocking chance as things stand. And if you gave all the small pkts to a van driver,haha fxckin madness

Basically anything that doesn't fit through a standard letterbox.

I just think either side of the job, pkts or letters, would be so much easier done separately. It's the combination of delivering letters and parcels all at the same time that make the job such an utter ball ache.

Letters will.have to pretty much dissappear before that happens I reckon, unless of course letters go back to government contol