DAVE WARD STOP THE FLANNEL

[FilthyBloke]

What I am hearing on the grape vine so cannot confrm it is not just the issue of reps dismissed or suspended holding up these negotiations but?

Royal Mail want to remove its full time release for area reps and above. That means they will be back on delivery and suffer the same hardships as everybody else.

Good.

[redlen]

The point being made is that there is more going on in these negotiations than we are being told.

[freespeech]

RM have said no more talks and have walked out of the room.

Ward and Furey are suddenly left sitting on their own looking at each other bewildered and so have basically now gone cap in hand to RM saying we remain available anytime over the weekend/bank holiday for more talks.

Are they expecting RM to suddenly change their minds, back down and return straight back to the room?

Are they SERIOUSLY expecting anything from RM before the bank holiday is over? Remember.....total silence from RM between Christmas and the New Year, they enjoyed their yuletide break and s0d the workforce

What members were expecting tonight I don't know...the very fact that RM walked out of talks should have told you that tonight's update was not going to tell you anything.

I am CWU through and through but you have to concede that Ward is in completely unchartered territory, never before has such drastic action by the union been constantly resisted by RM, sadly I do think Ward is now trying to save his face, making big things of what miniscule concessions have been made by RM. No compulsory redundancies? They don't need to...with posties leaving in their droves and not being replaced it's mission accomplished with no severance pay!

A last thought: Ward said tonight that this "agreement" they seek is a 2 year agreement, so, the MAXIMUM that it will last is 2 years, and that will be unlikely as RM will just steam roller over it if they choose to, and before you know it you are back to square one.

VERY sad times.

They do have communication by the facilitator of the talks things can be done on the phone or email now both sides know this. If is if there is a will to end this dispute on both sides and how much each side moves till then that's all folks.

It’s the facilitator ACAS and Brendan barber who have got us into this position
Barber f****d us over before while with ACAS and will have done so again siding with RM proposals
I would imagine there has been a few hefty deposits in ones bank accounts

How so? Barber facilitates the meetings not tell either side what they must do or accept.

[freespeech]

What I am hearing on the grape vine so cannot confrm it is not just the issue of reps dismissed or suspended holding up these negotiations but?

Royal Mail want to remove its full time release for area reps and above. That means they will be back on delivery and suffer the same hardships as everybody else.

I think thats "indirectly" what they want but it's the CWU's choice. What I mean is that RM want to half the cost they pay to the union and I hear they aren't bothered how the CWU spend that so long as there is a 50% reduction. In reality that will impact local and area reps but these numbers seem to be significant outside of deliveries.

[redlen]

Any facility time reps books with trade union duties, the CWU reimburse Royal Mail, That includes wages with full time release

[Binsey]

Indeed and don’t forget the hostile threat of stopping CWU subs straight from your wages

That’s a game changer……

Or have RM renegaded?

[redlen]

Why would Royal Mail seek to change that?

Any deduction from your wages to a third party Royal Mail charges a £1.00 processing fee

[Binsey]

Well if your goal is to destroy a powerful opponent it makes perfect sense.

This was proposed last July.
My original question was…

In the new RM proposals is this matter been addressed?

[Seamus70]

If the deal is what RM have basically offered, which is 10% over 3 years, you can make that 13% over 3 years just by cancelling your union subs.

Just saying……

No union and we wouldnt have even been offered the measly 2% for last year

Just saying...

Hey, if you’re happy with your union clap your hands.
A lot of people aren’t it seems.

For a person who is a not in the CWU, you invest an unhealthy amount of time posting about the CWU. Its a pretty tragic to think there's someone, out there, who's soulmate seems to be s**t posting, on a minute by minute basis, about a union they don't belong to.

I'm surprised that nobody has made the connection yet - FilthyBloke is ST. He has changed social media platform from Workplace to RM Chat.

[Sbutts8182]

Have to disagree.

Are agency staff not Royal Mail workers?

Royal Mail is at breaking point being understaffed. The CWU should be fighting for Angard staff to be made permanent as future employees yet have nothing but contempt for them rather than protecting. A high number of Angard staff are/were CWU members until the got stabbed in the back during this dispute.

No way are Agency staff taking a new Royal Mail contract when they are on more money and better conditions than a new starter.

[redlen]

That is rubbish

Angard are on the same pay as regular staff after 12 weeks continuous service except Sunday nights

[rambo1]

cwu won't accept new entrants on lesser t&c even though they would know this beforehand
but are willing to let every single existing postie who MUST do the school run, grandparents included potentially quit or pay someone to do it from march 24! and remember 4-30 becomes 5pm if flexing there
fantastic work by the team

plenty wanting the £1500 bung before they quit

We use to finish at 12 every day and 9 on a Saturday, nothing stays the same forever, not many jobs out there now that give you the finish times we once had.

so your statement basically says feck the family friendly side, we just want single people without children!
i don't have any issues with the finish times but know quite a few good friends who will and it would cost more and potentially quit something they love doing, but that's ok in today's world yeah?

Basically, yes. Sounds harsh but when did anyone ever say when you started the job that your hrs will stay the same for as long as you want to stay in the job? Nobody could expect that. I used to go cycle racing Saturday afternoon, haven't been able to do that for about 10 yrs now, I had to adapt. So will others. The world can't just revolve around childcare I'm afraid.

I take it from your stance, you don’t have school age children? So you wouldn’t know the stress and worry that 10000’s are going through………

No I haven't but surely when you have kids to allow for things like this? They don't pop out with a note attached for your employer to say don't change my mums/dads hrs.

[Halfhappy]

If the deal is what RM have basically offered, which is 10% over 3 years, you can make that 13% over 3 years just by cancelling your union subs.

Just saying……

No union and we wouldnt have even been offered the measly 2% for last year

Just saying...

Hey, if you’re happy with your union clap your hands.
A lot of people aren’t it seems.

For a person who is a not in the CWU, you invest an unhealthy amount of time posting about the CWU. Its a pretty tragic to think there's someone, out there, who's soulmate seems to be s**t posting, on a minute by minute basis, about a union they don't belong to.

It involves the company I have invested lots of time and effort into over the years so the union does still affect me.
When we have a weak union, like we do now, it makes people miserable.

Utter nonsense. What is making people miserable is the current management eroding the company, that you've allegedly invested so much time in. I don't see this reflected proportionally in your posts. Instead, you're posts serve no other purpose than to try to undermine and weaken the CWU's position, of which you're not a member. You have no union, so you can drop the "we". You're either a bad faith actor, or genuinely deluded.

The terms and conditions that everyone is in full scale panic over losing, were negotiated and protected by this so called "weak" union. I've been a member of other unions, in my days, so, if you want to talk about weak unions, take a look at USDAW. Heard anything from this union during the spate of industrial action across the country? Naa, now that's weak.

It seems to me that the only way people ever realise the value of something, is by losing it. Its endlessly pointed out just what sort of employment landscape we would have if there was no CWU to stand in the way of this management. It doesn't take a genius to realise that we'd all be on entirely different contracts, work hours and pay, or redundant, at this point. Yet the CWU is weak and the best thing to do is remove ourselves from a position of collective bargaining position, and leave everything up to the management who are attacking our jobs, terms and conditions. Total joke!

But that’s your mindset. That the only things good about the company are because of the union and everything bad is because of the company.

There are jobs iv had that haven’t had a union and they were fine. Some not so fine.

The terms the union fought so hard to get in the Agenda for Growth they threw away when the balloted for strike over pay last year. Shot themselves in the foot. They come across as amateurish the videos and twitter feeds are like kids have managed them.

Silly slogans and propaganda posters adding further paranoia to its workforce like they are about to face the enemy in WWII.

And then when the union needs to act it makes poorly planned strike action (when it doesn’t cancel them last minute) and then updates it members with empty waffle.

For someone that isn’t a union member, you do a hell of a lot of talking about them , very strange behaviour.

Because their decision making affects my job.
It’s not strange at all.

Endlessly criticising a union you're not a member of, and thus omitted the opportunity to take any democratic part in, for the literal actions of an employer, who's effecting a company you have apparently invested a lot of time and effort into, is totally strange. Its bad faith or delusion.

[rambo1]

Seen as though most of the stuff has been agreed by the union I wonder what peoples thoughts are on what would swing it for the union to get the deal over the line.

I reckon reinstating the IHR and new starters levelling up in 2 years instead of 5 might do it.

Don't think that would be a priority. Unless you're seriously ill or have your kid wanting a job here.

[heraldmoth]

And how do you keep track of annualised hours? Trust management when they say “right u owe me 50 hours over the next 2 months” or go back to the dry lunch of a union and complain?

You have set hrs for summer and winter a bit like you do for Tuesday and Wednesday now. You don't lose track of what hrs you work during a normal week now do you?

Literally have to go in every Wednesday cos my overtime from the previous week is wrong much rather just no overtime