Annualised hours

[77SAMPOST77]

Apparently they have "agreements" going back years which mean they don't have to follow the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023

.

It's already been pointed out to you that the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023 allow for breaks to be taken at the end.

Read the guidance...

Breaks in my opinion should not be taken before or at the end of working shift ,
The whole point of a break is to BREAK UP the working a day and give you a rest period which is even more important if you are on driving duties
for safety reasons .

For me, being forced to take my break during delivery, having to sit in a shitty van for 20 minutes . . . That would leave me feeling far more mentally and physically tired than being allowed to take it at the end.

In the real world many workers take there breaks in there vehicles , Lorry drivers , bin men etc etc ,
If its shitty that is down to your fellow workers leaving it that way .
honestly if you cannot sit in a van for a 20 minute break without it making you mentally and physically tired you need to get another job .

[Barnacle]

Only in the strange niave world of RM would anyone attempt to justify leaving 20 minutes early by claiming that "I never took my break".
In the Real World, the reply would be "more fool you then, but you're still staying to the end of your attendance time".

In the “Real World” lots of jobs involve working in a nice warm office environment where staff consume multiple cups of tea or coffee throughout the day, with toilet facilities on hand.

What we do is different. In winter particularly i often spend an hour or so at least holding in a wee because there just arent any toilets available.

I suspect a lot of staff still have the mindset that if they have done their duty plus the lapse and if they still finish early then its fair dinkum and they should be allowed to leave early.

The issue is when managers look at their finish times and decide that everyone else should then be allocated more lapsing to do. This doesn't make sense in any world other than Royal Mail management.

What are you talking about?! We’re talking about taking your break at the end of duty! How is that leaving early?!

Because that’s the nub of it. If you take your break at the end, fine, but don’t sign out until break is over, at finishing time.

The problem is people taking their break at the end and signing out twenty minutes before finishing time.

[Woody Guthrie]

Just for clarification it's not just left to the higher ups to guess whether someone is taking their break at the end.
It's embedded in the data set as long as it's built into the revision.

The SISO data is not your biggest problem anyway and I'm surprised some of you are obsessed with it even though you don't actually work on delivery ,what SISO offers is very limited, although it can tell what time you scan out it cannot tell whether you've just spent 40 minutes in the office toilet playing candy crush, it can't tell whether you've just ghosted two hours of overtime, it can't tell if you've been walking around like a zombie for 5 hours trying to hang your duty out.

SISO data is never going to be used to strip hours from a delivery office because as a resourcing tool it's practically useless and easily manipulated by members.

However PDA data, that's a whole different ball game. That can spot an opportunity no matter how hard you try to hide it by hanging around the office until finishing time.

[2chorizon]

SISO data is never going to be used to strip hours from a delivery office because as a resourcing tool it's practically useless and easily manipulated by members.

However PDA data, that's a whole different ball game. That can spot an opportunity no matter how hard you try to hide it by hanging around the office until finishing time.

Strap it to a cat

[Barnacle]

Just for clarification it's not just left to the higher ups to guess whether someone is taking their break at the end.
It's embedded in the data set as long as it's built into the revision.

The SISO data is not your biggest problem anyway and I'm surprised some of you are obsessed with it even though you don't actually work on delivery ,what SISO offers is very limited, although it can tell what time you scan out it cannot tell whether you've just spent 40 minutes in the office toilet playing candy crush, it can't tell whether you've just ghosted two hours of overtime, it can't tell if you've been walking around like a zombie for 5 hours trying to hang your duty out.

SISO data is never going to be used to strip hours from a delivery office because as a resourcing tool it's practically useless and easily manipulated by members.

However PDA data, that's a whole different ball game. That can spot an opportunity no matter how hard you try to hide it by hanging around the office until finishing time.

You’re making the same point about the SISO/pda data as others, but then say it isn’t the same and SISO is pointless.

If they aren’t going to use SISO data to strip hours, why are managers insisting on people not signing out early and making them shuffle crates until the shift ends? All of this information gathering will not be for no purpose whatsoever. As you said the SISO/PDA has no idea what you might have been doing between arriving back at the office and signing out. All it notes is the time you signed out.

There are going to be job losses so why give them all the info they need to make your job disappear?

[mjd24]

Apparently they have "agreements" going back years which mean they don't have to follow the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023

.

It's already been pointed out to you that the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023 allow for breaks to be taken at the end.

Read the guidance...

Breaks in my opinion should not be taken before or at the end of working shift ,
The whole point of a break is to BREAK UP the working a day and give you a rest period which is even more important if you are on driving duties
for safety reasons .

For me, being forced to take my break during delivery, having to sit in a shitty van for 20 minutes . . . That would leave me feeling far more mentally and physically tired than being allowed to take it at the end.

In the real world many workers take there breaks in there vehicles , Lorry drivers , bin men etc etc ,
If its shitty that is down to your fellow workers leaving it that way .
honestly if you cannot sit in a van for a 20 minute break without it making you mentally and physically tired you need to get another job .

Ok- will do

[Woody Guthrie]

You’re making the same point about the SISO/pda data as others, but then say it isn’t the same and SISO is pointless.

SISO and PDA data are not the same thing.

While people obsess about scanning out on time as if it will somehow save their jobs the really dangerous data is coming from the PDA.

What is destroying jobs is actually really simple, it's a lack of work and no amount of pretending that you can stretch that work out until finish time is going to save those jobs.

Bickering about whether people take their break at the beginning, middle or end is really laughable and pointless. .

The calculation for removing hours from delivery offices is simple.
You take the weighted items and you divide it by the TM1 or core hours (which doesn't include breaks no matter when you take them).

If it's below your target WIPWH which for my office is 165.7 you need to remove hours.

It has absolutely nothing to do with when anyone goes home.

The reason the PDA data is so dangerous is because it can tell who's pissing about... who's hanging out their duty, who's returning to the office an hour early but drinking coffee until they can scan out and give themselves a hug for not scanning out early.

[Barnacle]

You’re making the same point about the SISO/pda data as others, but then say it isn’t the same and SISO is pointless.

SISO and PDA data are not the same thing.

While people obsess about scanning out on time as if it will somehow save their jobs the really dangerous data is coming from the PDA.

What is destroying jobs is actually really simple, it's a lack of work and no amount of pretending that you can stretch that work out until finish time is going to save those jobs.

Bickering about whether people take their break at the beginning, middle or end is really laughable and pointless. .

The calculation for removing hours from delivery offices is simple.
You take the weighted items and you divide it by the TM1 or core hours (which doesn't include breaks no matter when you take them).

If it's below your target WIPWH which for my office is 165.7 you need to remove hours.

It has absolutely nothing to do with when anyone goes home.

The reason the PDA data is so dangerous is because it can tell who's pissing about... who's hanging out their duty, who's returning to the office an hour early but drinking coffee until they can scan out and give themselves a hug for not scanning out early.

If you think the PDA can tell them who is drinking cocoa for an hour or who is tidying the yard for an hour, then don’t take your PDA into the little boys room.

[Woody Guthrie]

If you think the PDA can tell them who is drinking cocoa for an hour or who is tidying the yard for an hour, then don’t take your PDA into the little boys room.

It can tell that you're doing nothing, that's all it needs to know.

[DGH]

If you think the PDA can tell them who is drinking cocoa for an hour or who is tidying the yard for an hour, then don’t take your PDA into the little boys room.

It doesn't matter what you're doing. If you're consistently back into the office early, be it half an hour or an hour or whatever, that will be looked at at time that could have been spend delivering. You personally will not likely be 'targeted' but the duty will likely be flagged for extra work, at 'best' the office will be flagged as having more capacity.

I'd like to see the PDA's have a 'break' button where you had to press it to start and end your break. That way you could record how and when you had taken your break in the day and that would allow a deal of flexibility that RM probably wishes to ignore.

The safe way though is to have 15-20 minutes break before you go out and 20-25 minutes sometime before you get back to the office. The PDA does effectively record that as the dreaded 'big yellow dot' of stoppage time. But then if you're back to the office with around ten minutes to spare, that's time to unload, do 739s, report anything that might need reported, etc.

[Barnacle]

If you think the PDA can tell them who is drinking cocoa for an hour or who is tidying the yard for an hour, then don’t take your PDA into the little boys room.

It doesn't matter what you're doing. If you're consistently back into the office early, be it half an hour or an hour or whatever, that will be looked at at time that could have been spend delivering. You personally will not likely be 'targeted' but the duty will likely be flagged for extra work, at 'best' the office will be flagged as having more capacity.

I'd like to see the PDA's have a 'break' button where you had to press it to start and end your break. That way you could record how and when you had taken your break in the day and that would allow a deal of flexibility that RM probably wishes to ignore.

The safe way though is to have 15-20 minutes break before you go out and 20-25 minutes sometime before you get back to the office. The PDA does effectively record that as the dreaded 'big yellow dot' of stoppage time. But then if you're back to the office with around ten minutes to spare, that's time to unload, do 739s, report anything that might need reported, etc.

A ‘break’ capacity would be a good idea and it is something that would be especially useful when doing dedicated parcels with RoN. At the moment RoN optimises the route and gives a finish time which could be 6 hours away. Within that 6 hours (so 6.20 adjusted) RoN should also account for a break, rather than you going off route and RoN showing you did some random thing for 20 mins or so.

[postslippete]

You’re making the same point about the SISO/pda data as others, but then say it isn’t the same and SISO is pointless.

SISO and PDA data are not the same thing.

While people obsess about scanning out on time as if it will somehow save their jobs the really dangerous data is coming from the PDA.

What is destroying jobs is actually really simple, it's a lack of work and no amount of pretending that you can stretch that work out until finish time is going to save those jobs.

Bickering about whether people take their break at the beginning, middle or end is really laughable and pointless. .

The calculation for removing hours from delivery offices is simple.
You take the weighted items and you divide it by the TM1 or core hours (which doesn't include breaks no matter when you take them).

If it's below your target WIPWH which for my office is 165.7 you need to remove hours.

It has absolutely nothing to do with when anyone goes home.

The reason the PDA data is so dangerous is because it can tell who's pissing about... who's hanging out their duty, who's returning to the office an hour early but drinking coffee until they can scan out and give themselves a hug for not scanning out early.

The calculation for removing hours from delivery offices makes as much sense in how Royal Mail plan office budgets!! They lapse duties and resort to bringing in agency staff and using posties on ghost overtime to deliver them

Could you clarify anything in the current conduct code about Royal Mail's use of PDA data Woody?

Would we really be deprived of having to drive off somewhere to use the toilet because it might show that we are pissing about? We are being forced into walking half marathons everyday. Surely we need some respite from the hours of constantly pounding the pavements. We are not robots.

[Shadedpostie]

You’re making the same point about the SISO/pda data as others, but then say it isn’t the same and SISO is pointless.

SISO and PDA data are not the same thing.

While people obsess about scanning out on time as if it will somehow save their jobs the really dangerous data is coming from the PDA.

What is destroying jobs is actually really simple, it's a lack of work and no amount of pretending that you can stretch that work out until finish time is going to save those jobs.

Bickering about whether people take their break at the beginning, middle or end is really laughable and pointless. .

The calculation for removing hours from delivery offices is simple.
You take the weighted items and you divide it by the TM1 or core hours (which doesn't include breaks no matter when you take them).

If it's below your target WIPWH which for my office is 165.7 you need to remove hours.

It has absolutely nothing to do with when anyone goes home.

The reason the PDA data is so dangerous is because it can tell who's pissing about... who's hanging out their duty, who's returning to the office an hour early but drinking coffee until they can scan out and give themselves a hug for not scanning out early.

If you think the PDA can tell them who is drinking cocoa for an hour or who is tidying the yard for an hour, then don’t take your PDA into the little boys room.

If it tracks you from going out the delivery all the way to the end of the delivery when you are back at the office, then yeah it's going to be used against yas. Isn't going to take a genius to figure out why there was an hour gap been you coming back to the office and then scanning out. People just never learn in this company

[Barnacle]

You’re making the same point about the SISO/pda data as others, but then say it isn’t the same and SISO is pointless.

SISO and PDA data are not the same thing.

While people obsess about scanning out on time as if it will somehow save their jobs the really dangerous data is coming from the PDA.

What is destroying jobs is actually really simple, it's a lack of work and no amount of pretending that you can stretch that work out until finish time is going to save those jobs.

Bickering about whether people take their break at the beginning, middle or end is really laughable and pointless. .

The calculation for removing hours from delivery offices is simple.
You take the weighted items and you divide it by the TM1 or core hours (which doesn't include breaks no matter when you take them).

If it's below your target WIPWH which for my office is 165.7 you need to remove hours.

It has absolutely nothing to do with when anyone goes home.

The reason the PDA data is so dangerous is because it can tell who's pissing about... who's hanging out their duty, who's returning to the office an hour early but drinking coffee until they can scan out and give themselves a hug for not scanning out early.

If you think the PDA can tell them who is drinking cocoa for an hour or who is tidying the yard for an hour, then don’t take your PDA into the little boys room.

If it tracks you from going out the delivery all the way to the end of the delivery when you are back at the office, then yeah it's going to be used against yas. Isn't going to take a genius to figure out why there was an hour gap been you coming back to the office and then scanning out. People just never learn in this company

Only a numpty would make it that obvious.

[pieoftheday]

You’re making the same point about the SISO/pda data as others, but then say it isn’t the same and SISO is pointless.

SISO and PDA data are not the same thing.

While people obsess about scanning out on time as if it will somehow save their jobs the really dangerous data is coming from the PDA.

What is destroying jobs is actually really simple, it's a lack of work and no amount of pretending that you can stretch that work out until finish time is going to save those jobs.

Bickering about whether people take their break at the beginning, middle or end is really laughable and pointless. .

The calculation for removing hours from delivery offices is simple.
You take the weighted items and you divide it by the TM1 or core hours (which doesn't include breaks no matter when you take them).

If it's below your target WIPWH which for my office is 165.7 you need to remove hours.

It has absolutely nothing to do with when anyone goes home.

The reason the PDA data is so dangerous is because it can tell who's pissing about... who's hanging out their duty, who's returning to the office an hour early but drinking coffee until they can scan out and give themselves a hug for not scanning out early.

If you think the PDA can tell them who is drinking cocoa for an hour or who is tidying the yard for an hour, then don’t take your PDA into the little boys room.

If it tracks you from going out the delivery all the way to the end of the delivery when you are back at the office, then yeah it's going to be used against yas. Isn't going to take a genius to figure out why there was an hour gap been you coming back to the office and then scanning out. People just never learn in this company

Only a numpty would make it that obvious.

With all bonkers revisions and the now massive walks, who the chuff has an hour spare to sit about?