PEC agreed yesterday to make Royal Mail a fresh offer to suspend this week's planned strikes and implement a period of calm until the 16th Jan, subject to a joint statement

[clashcityrocker]

RM runs the business, not Dave.

Has anyone told Dave that?

[Fannybaws]

And they got ousted.

And?

Thomson is backed by the board, that's obvious to see. This is all about breaking the union and if need be the USO, the company, everything. It's clear there's a lot going on behind the scenes and the future isn't rosy.

[Mr Rush]

RM runs the business, not Dave. All he has to do is point out the lack of vision and the short-term plans for the business.

Yes! I keep hearing about how the union's proposals to build a sustainable future are all vague and undefined (and they are), but it's not like the company has a constructive vision either.

[richietns]

And they got ousted.

And?

Thomson is backed by the board, that's obvious to see. This is all about breaking the union and if need be the USO, the company, everything. It's clear there's a lot going on behind the scenes and the future isn't rosy.

I know but its still a fact.

[TopperGas]

After looking at both proposed "joint statements" it seems the main issues still in dispute are Parcel Force and new entrants terms and conditions, personally I'm not that concerned about either to warrant losing at least another 2 days pay.

Given the silence on the other proposed T&C changes I assume the changes to sick pay and allowances etc are considered agreed by both sides?

So you are ok with people doing the same job as you on less pay ,
So you are ok with parcelforce getting less pay and conditions even though they are on strike also has cwu members ,
Parcelforce are increasing owner drivers on a daily basis and next year all royal mail parcels will be able to go parcelforce where required ,
which means a huge amount of royal mail items going to cheap slave labour owner drivers via parcelforce ,
if posties want to save there jobs its crucial the fight alongside parcelforce to try and abolish slave labour owner drivers .

I started on less pay for 12 months and was perfectly happy with that as I was desperate for a job at the time, if people are content to work for less in the future why should RM pay them more?

If the only other issue is PF then I personally don't want to carry on losing over £200 a week do to IA in the new year.

[TopperGas]

Thanks Sindba!

I'm merely a small business owner and have been so since 2009, a sole trader in reality and want to remain that way until retirement, if I'm lucky. I have nothing to do with RM other than my own/business shipping needs, certainly nothing to with the management of any company, large or small.

I still use RM internationally to ship to about 100 countries around the globe. The UK has changed for me for now, as mentioned, but I must have affixed more CN22's to parcels than I've had hot dinners over the past 13 years of business.

I want you guys to achieve the goal of gaining better standards of employment, I can literally see it in my posties eyes that he's had enough. As I exemplified before, RM are giving him extra parcel collection responsibilities each quarter and not gearing him up with the tools for such changes. Having anyone walk around a neighbourhood with a small cart to drop off and pickup hundreds of parcels is just plain stupid. If RM is going to focus on the parcel market, as it certainly should, they need to be taking posties off of the pavement and putting them in vans (not just occasionally, but permanently), rather than having them juggling hundreds of parcels on the pavement sometimes in -10 or +40 degree C.

I don't want RM to go belly up as nothing good can come of that, but I want things for you guys to improve, not just have RM run their workforce into the ground, which is evident at my own doorstep.

As Sindba says, RM will have no choice but to buck up their ideas if businesses continue giving them the adios due to the striking!

Thing is we can't get "off the pavements". RM is only quasi-privatised. We're still essential national infrastructure, still heavily regulated via the USO, so we're not just another "courier" company. We have to deliver every item, including letters. To every address. Every day.

The CWU are arguing that we should capitalise on the unique reach we have, those daily relationships with customers. Expand bespoke services, make sure we're the most trusted and reliable. RM want to go the other way and race to the bottom, cheaper and quicker, compete with Evri and Amazon. What's your view?

Capitalise how? Dave keeps saying this but putting nothing forwards? All i have heard is 'a care in the community type relatonship'

RM runs the business, not Dave. All he has to do is point out the lack of vision and the short-term plans for the business. I'd rather he took the shots at RM, rather than him spending every minute defending whatever idea he comes up with. To be honest, even if there is some highly successful, profit making expansion of posties duties, it'll be funnelled off, as a separate interest.

But DW is already going further than that by suggesting posties should be used for more than just delivering post?

[77SAMPOST77]

After looking at both proposed "joint statements" it seems the main issues still in dispute are Parcel Force and new entrants terms and conditions, personally I'm not that concerned about either to warrant losing at least another 2 days pay.

Given the silence on the other proposed T&C changes I assume the changes to sick pay and allowances etc are considered agreed by both sides?

So you are ok with people doing the same job as you on less pay ,
So you are ok with parcelforce getting less pay and conditions even though they are on strike also has cwu members ,
Parcelforce are increasing owner drivers on a daily basis and next year all royal mail parcels will be able to go parcelforce where required ,
which means a huge amount of royal mail items going to cheap slave labour owner drivers via parcelforce ,
if posties want to save there jobs its crucial the fight alongside parcelforce to try and abolish slave labour owner drivers .

I started on less pay for 12 months and was perfectly happy with that as I was desperate for a job at the time, if people are content to work for less in the future why should RM pay them more?

If the only other issue is PF then I personally don't want to carry on losing over £200 a week do to IA in the new year.

You are clearly missing the point , Your work and job will go to parcelforce owner drivers next year then you will be desperate for a job all over again ,
or perhaps you could become a slave labour owner driver seeing as you are prepared to work for whatever low wages are offered .
Big business love people like you who will work for peanuts and are not prepared to stand up for themselves .

[post6675]

Thanks Sindba!

I'm merely a small business owner and have been so since 2009, a sole trader in reality and want to remain that way until retirement, if I'm lucky. I have nothing to do with RM other than my own/business shipping needs, certainly nothing to with the management of any company, large or small.

I still use RM internationally to ship to about 100 countries around the globe. The UK has changed for me for now, as mentioned, but I must have affixed more CN22's to parcels than I've had hot dinners over the past 13 years of business.

I want you guys to achieve the goal of gaining better standards of employment, I can literally see it in my posties eyes that he's had enough. As I exemplified before, RM are giving him extra parcel collection responsibilities each quarter and not gearing him up with the tools for such changes. Having anyone walk around a neighbourhood with a small cart to drop off and pickup hundreds of parcels is just plain stupid. If RM is going to focus on the parcel market, as it certainly should, they need to be taking posties off of the pavement and putting them in vans (not just occasionally, but permanently), rather than having them juggling hundreds of parcels on the pavement sometimes in -10 or +40 degree C.

I don't want RM to go belly up as nothing good can come of that, but I want things for you guys to improve, not just have RM run their workforce into the ground, which is evident at my own doorstep.

As Sindba says, RM will have no choice but to buck up their ideas if businesses continue giving them the adios due to the striking!

Thing is we can't get "off the pavements". RM is only quasi-privatised. We're still essential national infrastructure, still heavily regulated via the USO, so we're not just another "courier" company. We have to deliver every item, including letters. To every address. Every day.

The CWU are arguing that we should capitalise on the unique reach we have, those daily relationships with customers. Expand bespoke services, make sure we're the most trusted and reliable. RM want to go the other way and race to the bottom, cheaper and quicker, compete with Evri and Amazon. What's your view?

Capitalise how? Dave keeps saying this but putting nothing forwards? All i have heard is 'a care in the community type relatonship'

RM runs the business, not Dave. All he has to do is point out the lack of vision and the short-term plans for the business. I'd rather he took the shots at RM, rather than him spending every minute defending whatever idea he comes up with. To be honest, even if there is some highly successful, profit making expansion of posties duties, it'll be funnelled off, as a separate interest.

Then he shouldnt really be saying 'we have given royal mail our plans to grow the business' in every broadcast ? You can not just say 'do more' and not give any suggestions

[Halfhappy]

Thanks Sindba!

I'm merely a small business owner and have been so since 2009, a sole trader in reality and want to remain that way until retirement, if I'm lucky. I have nothing to do with RM other than my own/business shipping needs, certainly nothing to with the management of any company, large or small.

I still use RM internationally to ship to about 100 countries around the globe. The UK has changed for me for now, as mentioned, but I must have affixed more CN22's to parcels than I've had hot dinners over the past 13 years of business.

I want you guys to achieve the goal of gaining better standards of employment, I can literally see it in my posties eyes that he's had enough. As I exemplified before, RM are giving him extra parcel collection responsibilities each quarter and not gearing him up with the tools for such changes. Having anyone walk around a neighbourhood with a small cart to drop off and pickup hundreds of parcels is just plain stupid. If RM is going to focus on the parcel market, as it certainly should, they need to be taking posties off of the pavement and putting them in vans (not just occasionally, but permanently), rather than having them juggling hundreds of parcels on the pavement sometimes in -10 or +40 degree C.

I don't want RM to go belly up as nothing good can come of that, but I want things for you guys to improve, not just have RM run their workforce into the ground, which is evident at my own doorstep.

As Sindba says, RM will have no choice but to buck up their ideas if businesses continue giving them the adios due to the striking!

Thing is we can't get "off the pavements". RM is only quasi-privatised. We're still essential national infrastructure, still heavily regulated via the USO, so we're not just another "courier" company. We have to deliver every item, including letters. To every address. Every day.

The CWU are arguing that we should capitalise on the unique reach we have, those daily relationships with customers. Expand bespoke services, make sure we're the most trusted and reliable. RM want to go the other way and race to the bottom, cheaper and quicker, compete with Evri and Amazon. What's your view?

Capitalise how? Dave keeps saying this but putting nothing forwards? All i have heard is 'a care in the community type relatonship'

RM runs the business, not Dave. All he has to do is point out the lack of vision and the short-term plans for the business. I'd rather he took the shots at RM, rather than him spending every minute defending whatever idea he comes up with. To be honest, even if there is some highly successful, profit making expansion of posties duties, it'll be funnelled off, as a separate interest.

Then he shouldnt really be saying 'we have given royal mail our plans to grow the business' in every broadcast ? You can not just say 'do more' and not give any suggestions

I think you can and he is, and there's nothing RM can do about it. The CEO is on £750k and a £150k bonus and the best he's got is redundancies, agency staff and owner drivers. Just suggesting posties go around shutting everyone's gate, would be an improvement on that.

[Dorset Plodder]

I think you can and he is, and there's nothing RM can do about it. The CEO is on £750k and a £150k bonus and the best he's got is redundancies, agency staff and owner drivers. Just suggesting posties go around shutting everyone's gate, would be an improvement on that.

I agree HH The CEO and his board get paid enough to come up with new, and innovative ideas to grow the business and make long term profits, for the benefit of us all.

The CEO and his board are reflected in our own low level managers. They want to take the money ( circa £40K which I believe is far too much for what they actually do) and want to do very little for it. They've got the brass neck to talk about self managing teams, swapping days off between colleagues if you need a particular day, and taking responsibility for covering abscences within your own TEAM.

What the hell does it leave these idiots to do? In theory they're meant to be putting in an 8 hour day and they can't even sort out Pay, Overtime and Leave in that time. I suggest it's time low level managers started SISO instead of giving it the old, "Oh I've got to go to a meeting" and sneaking off home at 0900! And ST' wants to get value for money from his employees?

[redlen]

You cannot make a temporary peace offer to Royal Mail with the Christmas Pressure and a list of demands.

Royal Mail said no and they can brag they have delivered Christmas, even with the strikes with all those pictures of clear office and Mail Centre to the press.

[daveyeff]

so what. we all know that's bollox.

[walthmstowman]

You cannot make a temporary peace offer to Royal Mail with the Christmas Pressure and a list of demands.

Royal Mail said no and they can brag they have delivered Christmas, even with the strikes with all those pictures of clear office and Mail Centre to the press.

So everything has been delivered ? There will be no customer complaints then ? You know full well what you've said is rubbish.

[norris9]

And they got ousted.

And?

Thomson is backed by the board, that's obvious to see. This is all about breaking the union and if need be the USO, the company, everything. It's clear there's a lot going on behind the scenes and the future isn't rosy.

I don't know how they can get out of the USO. Maybe they can convince the government to go down to a 5 day letter service. At the end of the day the CWU believe that would mean 4,000 jobs losses and right now we must be understaffed by at least 15,000 people. At best they get to go to a 5 day service or the government take the USO on themselves. How can you let this company run the USO at all when they are purposefully understaffing us and not performing the standard of service they should be and probably will never go back to the standard they once had.

How do they break the union? the members are united. Is the only way to get rid of the union - to pay us all off so they can replace us with a non-unionised slave workforce in place. That 1.7billion they have combined with some Kretinsky billions.....can pay us all to go.

[Dorset Plodder]

I don't know how they can get out of the USO. Maybe they can convince the government to go down to a 5 day letter service.

I remember in the past when RM was suggesting doing away with Saturday Deliveries the CWU mentioned the loss of 30 000 jobs..... but that was before RM suggested just delivering parcels on Saturdays. So we would have "Lost" our Day Off Cover (which is were they got the 30K from).

I would have thought the only way to ensure RM complied to their contract to deliver the USO would be to fine the crap out of them for not doing it! It amazes me that they've gotten away with it for so long. I can remember cases in the past when RM was fined and suddenly we all had to start doing the job properly ...... Nowadays they seem to get away with anything.