PEC agreed yesterday to make Royal Mail a fresh offer to suspend this week's planned strikes and implement a period of calm until the 16th Jan, subject to a joint statement

[YourBoy]

Financially, the big danger for Royal Mail is the three months after Christmas. Businesses won't be forced to use them anymore, and after this disaster, won't be inclined to. So you have what is usually a quiet period turned into a blood-letting.

This is where not delivering the post hits. It made sense - I suppose - on a short-term financial basis. But it's a continuing advertisement day after day that the company is unreliable, going into every home in the country.

Other UK delivery services are in the process of upscaling to absorb Royal Mail's parcel marketshare, which as you say will continue into 2023 and beyond as the strikes continue.

I (my business) stuck with RM throughout first few strikes in October/November but kept receiving emails from my customers along the lines of; "Royal Mail are shite, they're always on strike, why does your company keep using them when you are aware of how unreliable they have become?'

So after a number of those emails I decided to surrender to the customer and we now ship all UK parcels with UPS. It certainly costs the customer more in shipping fees than RM parcels did, but my customers are aware that there's a cost to qaulity ratio in play. As a result, I've not had a single delivery related complaint from a UK customer since transitioning over to UPS.

I can see RM streamlining in coming years (AKA downsizing due to a lesser demand for their services).

HERE COME THE RM TROLLS !

This is 100% down to Simon Thompson and the Royal Mail board. They refuse to be reasonable or compromise on anything. A message to any high ranking managers reading this messageboard .You won’t be able to destroy the union without destroying the company. Don’t you idiot’s realise that the union is your own staff . How can you make such monumental changes and succeed while leaving all your staff behind. Your enforced changes are doomed to fail without your staff onboard.

Well said!

[sindba]

Thanks Sindba!

I'm merely a small business owner and have been so since 2009, a sole trader in reality and want to remain that way until retirement, if I'm lucky. I have nothing to do with RM other than my own/business shipping needs, certainly nothing to with the management of any company, large or small.

I still use RM internationally to ship to about 100 countries around the globe. The UK has changed for me for now, as mentioned, but I must have affixed more CN22's to parcels than I've had hot dinners over the past 13 years of business.

I want you guys to achieve the goal of gaining better standards of employment, I can literally see it in my posties eyes that he's had enough. As I exemplified before, RM are giving him extra parcel collection responsibilities each quarter and not gearing him up with the tools for such changes. Having anyone walk around a neighbourhood with a small cart to drop off and pickup hundreds of parcels is just plain stupid. If RM is going to focus on the parcel market, as it certainly should, they need to be taking posties off of the pavement and putting them in vans (not just occasionally, but permanently), rather than having them juggling hundreds of parcels on the pavement sometimes in -10 or +40 degree C.

I don't want RM to go belly up as nothing good can come of that, but I want things for you guys to improve, not just have RM run their workforce into the ground, which is evident at my own doorstep.

As Sindba says, RM will have no choice but to buck up their ideas if businesses continue giving them the adios due to the striking!

Thing is we can't get "off the pavements". RM is only quasi-privatised. We're still essential national infrastructure, still heavily regulated via the USO, so we're not just another "courier" company. We have to deliver every item, including letters. To every address. Every day.

The CWU are arguing that we should capitalise on the unique reach we have, those daily relationships with customers. Expand bespoke services, make sure we're the most trusted and reliable. RM want to go the other way and race to the bottom, cheaper and quicker, compete with Evri and Amazon. What's your view?

[LouBarlow]

They are not working, that’s obvious to everyone now surely.

So what's the alternative?

A work to rule is an attractive idea, but would be intolerable for many part-timers who have done full time hours for years. It's also problematic in other ways.

We don't know that strikes aren't working. I'm not convinced myself that the one days strikes amounted to a hill of beans, but the two dayers have caused huge delays.

If we cave in then ST wins. If we don't cave in, maybe he wins anyway. It's not a great situation. The only thing we can really be sure of is that ST will say anything that he feels will help serve his agenda and cannot be trusted to do anything he promises to.

There is no alternative. It's like a broken record listening to the same people say that the strikes aren't working. Of course they are, they're the only thing holding this entire attack, on our job security and terms, back.

They aren’t holding anything back. All these changes will be implemented in the new year through executive action. They were never going to push them through before Christmas.

Should we just sit back and do nothing then.

Months of strikes have achieved nothing. We have been ‘doing something’ for f***ing ages. Nothing changes.

[Dorset Plodder]

I see the CWU Communications Director is earning his money again. Anyone heard of proof reading for typos before submitting letters?

"I would also urge you to stop boasting about you £1.7 billion war chest to take on the
union and instead use that money to invest in our members and a joint growth..."

Amateurs

These spelling mistakes are really upsetting you aren't they?

I think we've got bigger things to worry about!

[TopperGas]

Thanks Sindba!

I'm merely a small business owner and have been so since 2009, a sole trader in reality and want to remain that way until retirement, if I'm lucky. I have nothing to do with RM other than my own/business shipping needs, certainly nothing to with the management of any company, large or small.

I still use RM internationally to ship to about 100 countries around the globe. The UK has changed for me for now, as mentioned, but I must have affixed more CN22's to parcels than I've had hot dinners over the past 13 years of business.

I want you guys to achieve the goal of gaining better standards of employment, I can literally see it in my posties eyes that he's had enough. As I exemplified before, RM are giving him extra parcel collection responsibilities each quarter and not gearing him up with the tools for such changes. Having anyone walk around a neighbourhood with a small cart to drop off and pickup hundreds of parcels is just plain stupid. If RM is going to focus on the parcel market, as it certainly should, they need to be taking posties off of the pavement and putting them in vans (not just occasionally, but permanently), rather than having them juggling hundreds of parcels on the pavement sometimes in -10 or +40 degree C.

I don't want RM to go belly up as nothing good can come of that, but I want things for you guys to improve, not just have RM run their workforce into the ground, which is evident at my own doorstep.

As Sindba says, RM will have no choice but to buck up their ideas if businesses continue giving them the adios due to the striking!

Thing is we can't get "off the pavements". RM is only quasi-privatised. We're still essential national infrastructure, still heavily regulated via the USO, so we're not just another "courier" company. We have to deliver every item, including letters. To every address. Every day.

The CWU are arguing that we should capitalise on the unique reach we have, those daily relationships with customers. Expand bespoke services, make sure we're the most trusted and reliable. RM want to go the other way and race to the bottom, cheaper and quicker, compete with Evri and Amazon. What's your view?

I've still not seen one suggestion by the CWU which will actually create any income for RM? Perhaps we could start selling double glazing or life insurance if we're apparently seen as trusted and reliable!!

[postieblueshirt]

Thanks Sindba!

I'm merely a small business owner and have been so since 2009, a sole trader in reality and want to remain that way until retirement, if I'm lucky. I have nothing to do with RM other than my own/business shipping needs, certainly nothing to with the management of any company, large or small.

I still use RM internationally to ship to about 100 countries around the globe. The UK has changed for me for now, as mentioned, but I must have affixed more CN22's to parcels than I've had hot dinners over the past 13 years of business.

I want you guys to achieve the goal of gaining better standards of employment, I can literally see it in my posties eyes that he's had enough. As I exemplified before, RM are giving him extra parcel collection responsibilities each quarter and not gearing him up with the tools for such changes. Having anyone walk around a neighbourhood with a small cart to drop off and pickup hundreds of parcels is just plain stupid. If RM is going to focus on the parcel market, as it certainly should, they need to be taking posties off of the pavement and putting them in vans (not just occasionally, but permanently), rather than having them juggling hundreds of parcels on the pavement sometimes in -10 or +40 degree C.

I don't want RM to go belly up as nothing good can come of that, but I want things for you guys to improve, not just have RM run their workforce into the ground, which is evident at my own doorstep.

As Sindba says, RM will have no choice but to buck up their ideas if businesses continue giving them the adios due to the striking!

Thing is we can't get "off the pavements". RM is only quasi-privatised. We're still essential national infrastructure, still heavily regulated via the USO, so we're not just another "courier" company. We have to deliver every item, including letters. To every address. Every day.

The CWU are arguing that we should capitalise on the unique reach we have, those daily relationships with customers. Expand bespoke services, make sure we're the most trusted and reliable. RM want to go the other way and race to the bottom, cheaper and quicker, compete with Evri and Amazon. What's your view?

I've still not seen one suggestion by the CWU which will actually create any income for RM? Perhaps we could start selling double glazing or life insurance if we're apparently seen as trusted and reliable!!

how about we do our jobs as is.Trying to say you cant profit from 8 BILLION LETTERS an incredible amount of parcels and tonnes of leaflets.

[Dorset Plodder]

I've still not seen one suggestion by the CWU which will actually create any income for RM? Perhaps we could start selling double glazing or life insurance if we're apparently seen as trusted and reliable!!

Funny you mentioned Double Glazing. When RM announced the payouts for anyone wanting VR .... and then said "There's an extra £6000 if you apply by the end of the week" I was thinking this is just like some dodgy Double Glazing Sales technique!

Sign up quick .... There's only a limited number of places .... and they're disappearing fast!

[FilthyBloke]

Thanks Sindba!

I'm merely a small business owner and have been so since 2009, a sole trader in reality and want to remain that way until retirement, if I'm lucky. I have nothing to do with RM other than my own/business shipping needs, certainly nothing to with the management of any company, large or small.

I still use RM internationally to ship to about 100 countries around the globe. The UK has changed for me for now, as mentioned, but I must have affixed more CN22's to parcels than I've had hot dinners over the past 13 years of business.

I want you guys to achieve the goal of gaining better standards of employment, I can literally see it in my posties eyes that he's had enough. As I exemplified before, RM are giving him extra parcel collection responsibilities each quarter and not gearing him up with the tools for such changes. Having anyone walk around a neighbourhood with a small cart to drop off and pickup hundreds of parcels is just plain stupid. If RM is going to focus on the parcel market, as it certainly should, they need to be taking posties off of the pavement and putting them in vans (not just occasionally, but permanently), rather than having them juggling hundreds of parcels on the pavement sometimes in -10 or +40 degree C.

I don't want RM to go belly up as nothing good can come of that, but I want things for you guys to improve, not just have RM run their workforce into the ground, which is evident at my own doorstep.

As Sindba says, RM will have no choice but to buck up their ideas if businesses continue giving them the adios due to the striking!

Thing is we can't get "off the pavements". RM is only quasi-privatised. We're still essential national infrastructure, still heavily regulated via the USO, so we're not just another "courier" company. We have to deliver every item, including letters. To every address. Every day.

The CWU are arguing that we should capitalise on the unique reach we have, those daily relationships with customers. Expand bespoke services, make sure we're the most trusted and reliable. RM want to go the other way and race to the bottom, cheaper and quicker, compete with Evri and Amazon. What's your view?

I've still not seen one suggestion by the CWU which will actually create any income for RM? Perhaps we could start selling double glazing or life insurance if we're apparently seen as trusted and reliable!!

That’s my take on it as well.
The “olive branch” the CWU offered last week was basically “cancel your proposals and never go back to them and we will call off the 23/24 strikes.”
It was never going to be accepted.

[Halfhappy]

Thanks Sindba!

I'm merely a small business owner and have been so since 2009, a sole trader in reality and want to remain that way until retirement, if I'm lucky. I have nothing to do with RM other than my own/business shipping needs, certainly nothing to with the management of any company, large or small.

I still use RM internationally to ship to about 100 countries around the globe. The UK has changed for me for now, as mentioned, but I must have affixed more CN22's to parcels than I've had hot dinners over the past 13 years of business.

I want you guys to achieve the goal of gaining better standards of employment, I can literally see it in my posties eyes that he's had enough. As I exemplified before, RM are giving him extra parcel collection responsibilities each quarter and not gearing him up with the tools for such changes. Having anyone walk around a neighbourhood with a small cart to drop off and pickup hundreds of parcels is just plain stupid. If RM is going to focus on the parcel market, as it certainly should, they need to be taking posties off of the pavement and putting them in vans (not just occasionally, but permanently), rather than having them juggling hundreds of parcels on the pavement sometimes in -10 or +40 degree C.

I don't want RM to go belly up as nothing good can come of that, but I want things for you guys to improve, not just have RM run their workforce into the ground, which is evident at my own doorstep.

As Sindba says, RM will have no choice but to buck up their ideas if businesses continue giving them the adios due to the striking!

Thing is we can't get "off the pavements". RM is only quasi-privatised. We're still essential national infrastructure, still heavily regulated via the USO, so we're not just another "courier" company. We have to deliver every item, including letters. To every address. Every day.

The CWU are arguing that we should capitalise on the unique reach we have, those daily relationships with customers. Expand bespoke services, make sure we're the most trusted and reliable. RM want to go the other way and race to the bottom, cheaper and quicker, compete with Evri and Amazon. What's your view?

I've still not seen one suggestion by the CWU which will actually create any income for RM? Perhaps we could start selling double glazing or life insurance if we're apparently seen as trusted and reliable!!

I'm probably repeating myself, but the less the CWU says about plans, the better, as the moment they do, that is all the dispute will become about. The job losses and the cuts to terms, will all slip into the background, while Dave Ward spends his 4min TV slot defending the feasibility of any plan he's put forward. Its the same reason there's a reluctance to be pinned down to a specific pay award figure. Soon as that figure is out, that's all the discussion becomes about. I'd also add, ST's vision for RM is simply job cuts, an agency workforce and owner drivers, for a short-term increase in profit margins, that's it. Not particularly inspiring or imaginative. Once he's done with squeezing all he can out of labour costs, he'll continue cutting services, something that's only been hindered up to now, by the government. This CEO's only plans are to downgrade RM into a replica of Evri.

[sindba]

I've still not seen one suggestion by the CWU which will actually create any income for RM? Perhaps we could start selling double glazing or life insurance if we're apparently seen as trusted and reliable!!

It's not up to the CWU to run Royal Mail.

But it's obvious we can do better than what Thompson is proposing.

[post6675]

Thanks Sindba!

I'm merely a small business owner and have been so since 2009, a sole trader in reality and want to remain that way until retirement, if I'm lucky. I have nothing to do with RM other than my own/business shipping needs, certainly nothing to with the management of any company, large or small.

I still use RM internationally to ship to about 100 countries around the globe. The UK has changed for me for now, as mentioned, but I must have affixed more CN22's to parcels than I've had hot dinners over the past 13 years of business.

I want you guys to achieve the goal of gaining better standards of employment, I can literally see it in my posties eyes that he's had enough. As I exemplified before, RM are giving him extra parcel collection responsibilities each quarter and not gearing him up with the tools for such changes. Having anyone walk around a neighbourhood with a small cart to drop off and pickup hundreds of parcels is just plain stupid. If RM is going to focus on the parcel market, as it certainly should, they need to be taking posties off of the pavement and putting them in vans (not just occasionally, but permanently), rather than having them juggling hundreds of parcels on the pavement sometimes in -10 or +40 degree C.

I don't want RM to go belly up as nothing good can come of that, but I want things for you guys to improve, not just have RM run their workforce into the ground, which is evident at my own doorstep.

As Sindba says, RM will have no choice but to buck up their ideas if businesses continue giving them the adios due to the striking!

Thing is we can't get "off the pavements". RM is only quasi-privatised. We're still essential national infrastructure, still heavily regulated via the USO, so we're not just another "courier" company. We have to deliver every item, including letters. To every address. Every day.

The CWU are arguing that we should capitalise on the unique reach we have, those daily relationships with customers. Expand bespoke services, make sure we're the most trusted and reliable. RM want to go the other way and race to the bottom, cheaper and quicker, compete with Evri and Amazon. What's your view?

Capitalise how? Dave keeps saying this but putting nothing forwards? All i have heard is 'a care in the community type relatonship'

[britwrit]

Not choking off what's still a big profit center would be start. (Managed decline is one thing. Smoothering it to death out of spite is another.)

Not setting up a second distribution network that requires huge volumes to be profitable also helps.

[priority102]

Thanks Sindba!

I'm merely a small business owner and have been so since 2009, a sole trader in reality and want to remain that way until retirement, if I'm lucky. I have nothing to do with RM other than my own/business shipping needs, certainly nothing to with the management of any company, large or small.

I still use RM internationally to ship to about 100 countries around the globe. The UK has changed for me for now, as mentioned, but I must have affixed more CN22's to parcels than I've had hot dinners over the past 13 years of business.

I want you guys to achieve the goal of gaining better standards of employment, I can literally see it in my posties eyes that he's had enough. As I exemplified before, RM are giving him extra parcel collection responsibilities each quarter and not gearing him up with the tools for such changes. Having anyone walk around a neighbourhood with a small cart to drop off and pickup hundreds of parcels is just plain stupid. If RM is going to focus on the parcel market, as it certainly should, they need to be taking posties off of the pavement and putting them in vans (not just occasionally, but permanently), rather than having them juggling hundreds of parcels on the pavement sometimes in -10 or +40 degree C.

I don't want RM to go belly up as nothing good can come of that, but I want things for you guys to improve, not just have RM run their workforce into the ground, which is evident at my own doorstep.

As Sindba says, RM will have no choice but to buck up their ideas if businesses continue giving them the adios due to the striking!

Thing is we can't get "off the pavements". RM is only quasi-privatised. We're still essential national infrastructure, still heavily regulated via the USO, so we're not just another "courier" company. We have to deliver every item, including letters. To every address. Every day.

The CWU are arguing that we should capitalise on the unique reach we have, those daily relationships with customers. Expand bespoke services, make sure we're the most trusted and reliable. RM want to go the other way and race to the bottom, cheaper and quicker, compete with Evri and Amazon. What's your view?

Capitalise how? Dave keeps saying this but putting nothing forwards? All i have heard is 'a care in the community type relatonship'

And unless this "care in the community" type relationship makes money and productive use of posties, it will be forever dead in the water.

[Halfhappy]

Thanks Sindba!

I'm merely a small business owner and have been so since 2009, a sole trader in reality and want to remain that way until retirement, if I'm lucky. I have nothing to do with RM other than my own/business shipping needs, certainly nothing to with the management of any company, large or small.

I still use RM internationally to ship to about 100 countries around the globe. The UK has changed for me for now, as mentioned, but I must have affixed more CN22's to parcels than I've had hot dinners over the past 13 years of business.

I want you guys to achieve the goal of gaining better standards of employment, I can literally see it in my posties eyes that he's had enough. As I exemplified before, RM are giving him extra parcel collection responsibilities each quarter and not gearing him up with the tools for such changes. Having anyone walk around a neighbourhood with a small cart to drop off and pickup hundreds of parcels is just plain stupid. If RM is going to focus on the parcel market, as it certainly should, they need to be taking posties off of the pavement and putting them in vans (not just occasionally, but permanently), rather than having them juggling hundreds of parcels on the pavement sometimes in -10 or +40 degree C.

I don't want RM to go belly up as nothing good can come of that, but I want things for you guys to improve, not just have RM run their workforce into the ground, which is evident at my own doorstep.

As Sindba says, RM will have no choice but to buck up their ideas if businesses continue giving them the adios due to the striking!

Thing is we can't get "off the pavements". RM is only quasi-privatised. We're still essential national infrastructure, still heavily regulated via the USO, so we're not just another "courier" company. We have to deliver every item, including letters. To every address. Every day.

The CWU are arguing that we should capitalise on the unique reach we have, those daily relationships with customers. Expand bespoke services, make sure we're the most trusted and reliable. RM want to go the other way and race to the bottom, cheaper and quicker, compete with Evri and Amazon. What's your view?

Capitalise how? Dave keeps saying this but putting nothing forwards? All i have heard is 'a care in the community type relatonship'

RM runs the business, not Dave. All he has to do is point out the lack of vision and the short-term plans for the business. I'd rather he took the shots at RM, rather than him spending every minute defending whatever idea he comes up with. To be honest, even if there is some highly successful, profit making expansion of posties duties, it'll be funnelled off, as a separate interest.

[77SAMPOST77]

After looking at both proposed "joint statements" it seems the main issues still in dispute are Parcel Force and new entrants terms and conditions, personally I'm not that concerned about either to warrant losing at least another 2 days pay.

Given the silence on the other proposed T&C changes I assume the changes to sick pay and allowances etc are considered agreed by both sides?

So you are ok with people doing the same job as you on less pay ,
So you are ok with parcelforce getting less pay and conditions even though they are on strike also has cwu members ,
Parcelforce are increasing owner drivers on a daily basis and next year all royal mail parcels will be able to go parcelforce where required ,
which means a huge amount of royal mail items going to cheap slave labour owner drivers via parcelforce ,
if posties want to save there jobs its crucial the fight alongside parcelforce to try and abolish slave labour owner drivers .