RMCtv : Flexible hours - your questions answered plus important detailed attachments

[Pidleypoo]

If the union agree to even 1 percent of that nonsense then it’s finished and so are we.

Reading through that , you have no finish time at all and they won’t even pay you until you’ve done 10 hours.

Massively open to abuse by mangers and I’d say it’s unreasonable working practices.

I do not do overtime as I have an illness to manage , how tf I’m I going to do that when I don’t know when I’ll finish any given day ?

Pathetic isn’t the word for it.

[matthew68]

Absolutely ridiculous if this comes in I will be leaving as will thousands of others,I understand need to change but this a unworkable. How can you do 12 hours in winter with less daylight and what about Saturday when you have plans in the afternoon and those who can’t work Sunday as their partners do, I expect they want people to leave and just bring in new people who don’t know any different, it’s such a shame because this used to be a reasonable job but now it’s just going to the pits, I can’t see much the union can do to stop this or a similar work pattern, I’m afraid the future looks very bad so I for one will go as will I’m sure lots of others

[seaside]

All this sound's like victorian times, which is why I'm prepared to strike.

[theotherone]

To me I just look at it and think well whats the point in having a contract really?

[Bellaber]

Please just all calm down,these people are imbeciles they will be in the asylum soon

[mjd24]

I’m confused. If you remove daily absorption to ensure early finish in summer, RM will still be paying overtime to clear uncovered deliveries (from holidays). If the idea is to ensure everything is done every day, how are they saving any money?

I think you will build up a few hours ‘credit’ up to a yet unknown maximum. After the maximum amount of credit they then start paying o/t. I might be wrong though and stand to be corrected

This is the part I don't get..what if you don't want overtime? Is it now going to be mandatory to work/take overtime?

YES!!!

[SMS1969]

Don’t worry it’s going to take up to three years to sort this mess out apparently, so most will have jumped ship by then- which is what they probably want.

[kookoo32]

I’m confused. If you remove daily absorption to ensure early finish in summer, RM will still be paying overtime to clear uncovered deliveries (from holidays). If the idea is to ensure everything is done every day, how are they saving any money?

The idea isn't to save money on any given day. It's to ensure all mail is delivered every day with the minimum possible amount of overtime being paid over a period (and allowing for offices to be 'run lean' - ie with not enough hours, so that other costs can be kept down).

It's just lose-lose for us.

If you save half an hour on a Tuesday, that's just time they'll get you to work back later. If you hardly ever make any time, it's no skin of RM's nose - they'll allow you to bank 10 hours and just pay excess over that.

You've also got to bear in mind that this won't just be the early finishers getting more work, our glorious leader is talking about 'gold standard' performance for delivery. There's also the spectre of you overrunning your agreed overtime and not getting paid for the excess (and don't think that any form of 'cutting off procedure' is in their thinking. It isn't). And if you bring stuff back, Wilful Delay is right there ready to be deployed.

What it realistically means is that if you have a theoretical 9 hour day in winter that starts at 9am, you won't ever be able to bank on finishing by 6pm, you'll have to anticipate going over. And some days you could be going heaps over, maybe an hour and a half or more at Christmas. This will destroy any reasonable ability you have to plan your day - you'll have to presume your finishing time could be an hour after it's meant to be, and you'd probably be wise to allow that you might go past even that . . . but don't worry. RM will pay you non-pensionable overtime should it come to that. You can use that overtime towards paying for childcare, or getting a take away because you're too f****d to go shopping, or whatever you want. It stinks. It's the most dangerous part of the entire 'package' in my view. Anyone who'd agree to this, even in return for 10% and £1000 is mad unless they have no family or any social life to speak of.

That last paragraph is frightening but it's what will happen if they get their way.

I think the annualised hours are what scare me the most. Can just imagine knocking on someone's door on Christmas Eve at 7pm, waking up some kid that's bedded and waiting for Santa Claus when all they're getting standing at the door is a grumpy postie. Joking aside, it's going to be horrific if it actually happens. Annualised hours might work in indoor jobs but outdoor jobs in the dark where you are relying on reading and having to be careful where you're going has disaster written all over it.

Also it's bad enough getting finished after 3pm in the pressure months just now. Add a few hours onto that and the whole landscape of your life will change. Royal Mail will own you, all for about 12 quid an hour.

[DGH]

That last paragraph is frightening but it's what will happen if they get their way.

I think the annualised hours are what scare me the most. Can just imagine knocking on someone's door on Christmas Eve at 7pm, waking up some kid that's bedded and waiting for Santa Claus when all they're getting standing at the door is a grumpy postie. Joking aside, it's going to be horrific if it actually happens. Annualised hours might work in indoor jobs but outdoor jobs in the dark where you are relying on reading and having to be careful where you're going has disaster written all over it.

Also it's bad enough getting finished after 3pm in the pressure months just now. Add a few hours onto that and the whole landscape of your life will change. Royal Mail will own you, all for about 12 quid an hour.

I completely agree. Even if it ends up being slightly mitigated on introduction, RM's end game is evident.

Then we get in to the classic argument,

DOM - "your single and don't have any kids, you might as well just work. What are you gonna do all day?"

ME - "what's it got to do with you"

The argument won't exist. You'll 'commit to deliver' no matter who you are, even if you do have commitments. They are saying that people with issues will be accommodated by 'local arrangement', but 'local arrangements' won't happen. There may be an exception for recognised 'family friendly' arrangements as (at the moment) RM don't appear to be tearing them up (although at a local level in my area there seem to be strenuous efforts to convince/browbeat/con people into giving them up).

[Deadly]

Not happening

As usual it seems to be deliveries bearing the brunt as I really can't see it having the same effect at mail centres.

And what about collections. If your last pick up is at 5.30pm and you finish at 6.00pm you'll still be leaving your last call around 5.30pm, busy or quiet. Not the hours of difference that is being talked about on deliveries.

[DGH]

Not happening

As usual it seems to be deliveries bearing the brunt as I really can't see it having the same effect at mail centres.

And what about collections. If your last pick up is at 5.30pm and you finish at 6.00pm you'll still be leaving your last call around 5.30pm, busy or quiet. Not the hours of difference that is being talked about on deliveries.

Our glorious leader has already said it's deliveries where he sees 'opportunities' and that Mail Centres are doing wonderfully. I presume this is the usual 'divide and conquer tactics'.

However I suspect collections may be on thin ice. There's plenty of 'opportunity' for them once deliveries have been squeezed beyond breaking point. With later deliveries, the possibility for deliveries just to absorb collections is there. In fact the process began years ago.

[Woody Guthrie]

There's no individual way to defend yourself from this.


Doing the job properly, starting on your time and working your hours won't even protect you because management have closed that loophole by giving themselves the final say on whether the hours you work are justified by the workload.

_20220829_172146.JPG

We can only fight this collectively by backing the union and making it clear we will not accept this under any circumstances.

[chickenwittle]

To all you idiots , full timers , part timers , floats or reserves who start work early , run around on your duty to either finish early or do ghost overtime within your paid hours , and dont take your breaks.
Thank you for corrupting the system. Your selfishness over the years has corrupted the duty times, increased absorption amounts and will impact greatly on the shorter summer days in this new system. RM will take full advantage of your recorded delivery times to justify the shorter days so that we are expected to work 12 hour days in the autumn/winter.
We have moaned on this site for years about you cretins. You (and we) are about to suffer from your actions.

Union should have fought for clocking in and out machines years ago , I keep hearing they’re coming etc. but hasn’t happened. The only way to stop these idiots from coming in early not taking breaks and running around to finish early is to pay them for the hours worked , that’s the only way to stop them.

[yubin282]

That last paragraph is frightening but it's what will happen if they get their way.

I think the annualised hours are what scare me the most. Can just imagine knocking on someone's door on Christmas Eve at 7pm, waking up some kid that's bedded and waiting for Santa Claus when all they're getting standing at the door is a grumpy postie. Joking aside, it's going to be horrific if it actually happens. Annualised hours might work in indoor jobs but outdoor jobs in the dark where you are relying on reading and having to be careful where you're going has disaster written all over it.

Also it's bad enough getting finished after 3pm in the pressure months just now. Add a few hours onto that and the whole landscape of your life will change. Royal Mail will own you, all for about 12 quid an hour.

I completely agree. Even if it ends up being slightly mitigated on introduction, RM's end game is evident.

Then we get in to the classic argument,

DOM - "your single and don't have any kids, you might as well just work. What are you gonna do all day?"

ME - "what's it got to do with you"

The argument won't exist. You'll 'commit to deliver' no matter who you are, even if you do have commitments. They are saying that people with issues will be accommodated by 'local arrangement', but 'local arrangements' won't happen. There may be an exception for recognised 'family friendly' arrangements as (at the moment) RM don't appear to be tearing them up (although at a local level in my area there seem to be strenuous efforts to convince/browbeat/con people into giving them up).

Thats what I was trying to say, the same people will always have "family friendly agreements" with the DOM. Do you trust anyone to make this actually fair?

[Zicomurphy]

There's no individual way to defend yourself from this.


Doing the job properly, starting on your time and working your hours won't even protect you because management have closed that loophole by giving themselves the final say on whether the hours you work are justified by the workload.


_20220829_172146.JPG


We can only fight this collectively by backing the union and making it clear we will not accept this under any circumstances.

What happens if the manager claims the hours worked aren’t appropriate to workload? You finish at 2pm when they claim the figures say you should finish at 1pm what happens then? They refuse to bank the extra hour so you are in effect working for free? They call you into the office and tell you you aren’t achieving gold standard delivery speed and they are going to issue an official warning? 3 warnings and then dismissed?