RMCtv : No cut offs - ever - You take it out - you deliver it all.

[SpacePhoenix]

We'll all be clicking in and out soon so pda info won't mean diddly

Will we?

They’ve been going on about this for ages - but clocking in machines aren’t even mentioned in the latest lot of changes

Probably because nobody was really bothered about them

They'll start to roll them out at DOs at some point. They've already been rolled out in MCs, don't know about RDCs. They don't take long to install, they just need a mains electrical connection and they use the office wi-fi. It's doubtful that there's any DOs that hasn't got the room for one

[Fannybaws]

Don't log out of your PDA till the very second your about to leave the building after signing out. You're still working when back at the D.O. doing returns and kill off etc.

Not sure that would make any difference as once you're back at the office the PDA will pick up the office wi-fi and also it'll be within the geo-fenced area

Yes but as FB said (which seemed to pass you by), you can still be working even though you are physically in the 'geo-fenced area' doing kill
offs, stacking and returning perstops, same with yorks, emptying bags, scanning items back in, tidying your van, refuelling van. I can
spend 20 minutes doing all of this and still claim the second 20 minutes due of break at the end and I've had an intense discussion with
a manager before about why I'd claimed 40 minutes at the end, he relented when I threatened to dump all the kill offs and just leave
all the perstops on his office desk - and no we don't have light duties staff to do that and so I do exactly the same with the PDA as FB
said log off and return it just as you're about to walk out the door.

Yep, my points exactly. Cover yourself at all times.

[Fannybaws]

The length of time your duty should take is derived from a piece of software.
That determines how big the duty is or will become.
All PDA data tells them is how long you are taking to do it.

That software partly works off the data from the PDA so the more a person logs into that PDA the better because it's showing that there is no room for more work to be added and possibly work has to come off. The elephant in the room I think is being missed is the possible use of PDA's once again being used to track people whilst in the office to determine what they are actually doing and how long each part of the indoor work is taking them.

[SpacePhoenix]

Don't log out of your PDA till the very second your about to leave the building after signing out. You're still working when back at the D.O. doing returns and kill off etc.

Not sure that would make any difference as once you're back at the office the PDA will pick up the office wi-fi and also it'll be within the geo-fenced area

Yes but as FB said (which seemed to pass you by), you can still be working even though you are physically in the 'geo-fenced area' doing kill
offs, stacking and returning perstops, same with yorks, emptying bags, scanning items back in, tidying your van, refuelling van. I can
spend 20 minutes doing all of this and still claim the second 20 minutes due of break at the end and I've had an intense discussion with
a manager before about why I'd claimed 40 minutes at the end, he relented when I threatened to dump all the kill offs and just leave
all the perstops on his office desk - and no we don't have light duties staff to do that and so I do exactly the same with the PDA as FB
said log off and return it just as you're about to walk out the door.

Yep, my points exactly. Cover yourself at all times.

Doesn't prove that you were working, it only proves that the PDA has been left somewhere whilst still logged on

[Woody Guthrie]

That software partly works off the data from the PDA

No it really doesn't.
The PDA data is only used when there is a conflict between what georoute says a loop takes and what the duty holder says it takes.

The PDA data used might not be yours alone but several different people who have done the duty.

The end of delivery tasks being indoor work are a set time and are not measured by the PDA actuals. From the moment you enter the DO you are given a set time to complete these tasks so it doesn't really matter when you log off.

The elephant in the room I think is being missed is the possible use of PDA's once again being used to track people whilst in the office to determine what they are actually doing and how long each part of the indoor work is taking them.

This would only work if you were logging in and out of each task, something they've talked about but not implemented in delivery offices probably because they wouldn't like the data it spat out. The geo-positionary capabilities of the PDA alone are not accurate enough to track people from job to job indoors.

I'm not defending those that cut the job up but the effect they have on overall resourcing is pretty minimal and a bit of a red herring.

It's also handy for management if we're blaming each other for the state of our jobs.

[antcpfc]

37 years in the job and I’ve not seen a set of proposals as bad as this. I’m 60 next year and was thinking of going , even half of these proposals would give me the nudge I need.

[POSTMAN]

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[clashcityrocker]

I don't know who my unit Route manager is.
I would like to spend quality time with them.

[mjd24]

I still think- get all the long term reserves in a room and ask them which jobs are too big, which are too small, and which are just right. Sounds too simplistic maybe but I genuinely think it would result in fairer walks.

[Sir Henry]

But that would inevitably boil down to the fact that the walks are too long, so won't ever happen.


"If the Route Manager data for your route is not accurate you can lose workload when the route is being checked through our agreed Outdoor Tool for route design - GeoRoute "
"Can" but WONT.
"Agreed" but always used in ways that AREN"T

"This can lead to uneven routes and can increase tension in our delivery offices."
Uneven routes are the rule NOT the exception

"It is difficult to understand when things seem unfair, the data and facts within the system will support understanding and can help defuse that tension, building stronger relationships, based on data."

No, no it won't. You're only fooling yourself if you actually think that. Not that we believe you do.

"Spending quality time with your unit Route Manager champion can ensure every delivery point is positioned correctly, every step, every flight of stairs, every blahblahfuckingblah is recorded and accounted for in route design."

When would THAT ever happen?

"Each region has a team of Route Manager authorisers to ensure integrity of the data remains, when changes are made."

Sounds like another Horizon scandal but one that no one will give a f**k about. Don't trust the screws, don't trust the Route Planner/Manager or how it is used. Wouldn't trust you c***s ever and that is based on years of experience with you bent, bullshitters

[TopperGas]

I still think- get all the long term reserves in a room and ask them which jobs are too big, which are too small, and which are just right. Sounds too simplistic maybe but I genuinely think it would result in fairer walks.

Why can't each office just have two nominated OPG's who's role it is to confirm whether a route is the right size or not? It can't be that difficult given the route is used 6 days a week and it must be fairly obvious quite quickly it's the right size or not once, I can't see how doing a route by a computer programme is ever going to show the true picture.

[pieoftheday]

On my old round I booked OT most days , I was happy as I needed the money, every time I was off there would be no OT booked and my manager would have a go at me, I soon learned that the cover man gave at least 45mins of his own time before his shift started. So any testing of walks should be done properly by a regular postie and a qualified manager, very unlikely to happen though eh

[tomtallis]

Walk holder, rep and screw only. Give the responsibility to 2 opgs and they'll soon get worked on by management.

[Wolf91]

We have a walk in our office - that is 6- 6& a half hours (on a heavy day) long - that’s by someone who knows the job and is reasonably quick .
Also involves 20 minute travel time to and from said destination , well over 7 hours door to door. You literally have to alternate half the round each day just to work within your hours.
Try doing that in the winter 6 days a week - not cutting off. It would destroy you.


Best thing about it ?
They still make you lapse on it. (Or try to).

Beggars belief that Simon has the sheer audacity to question why we have higher rates of sickness compared with other sectors / businesses.

[Fannybaws]

When you see them turning out stuff like this I standby what I've always said.

Start on time,
Take your meal breaks.
Keep bags weights inline with safety limits.
Use a trolley were possible and necessary or cut bag weights down.
Scan everything and scan everything on the doorstep not as you walk down the street or at the back of the van when you take it out.
Don't write cards out in the office beforehand do it on the doorstep.
Don't take short cuts over gardens or walls (trolley usually stops that) walk up and down all driveways and paths to properly log time and distances accumulated out on delivery.
Do all van checks required.
Don't run/jog out on delivery.
Don't log out of your PDA till the very second your about to leave the building after signing out. You're still working when back at the D.O. doing returns and kill off etc.
Report all issues to managers as it's their job not yours to make decisions. Always keep the ball and pressure in their court.

Cover yourselves at all times because there's statistics statistics and damned lies.

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