LDC Comms on Pay Dispute

[Woody Guthrie]

It has to be sustainable, an all out strike might look cool and sound tough but they would just starve us out. How long could anyone go with no pay coming in?

It might come to that but it's the nuclear option, it's not how you start a dispute.

Work to rule is too dangerous because most members don't even know what it means and overtime bans are useless on their own and impossible to control.

[Acca Dacca]

It has to be sustainable, an all out strike might look cool and sound tough but they would just starve us out. How long could anyone go with no pay coming in?

It might come to that but it's the nuclear option, it's not how you start a dispute.

Work to rule is too dangerous because most members don't even know what it means and overtime bans are useless on their own and impossible to control.

Best way would maybe be to stagger it with mail centre all out one day, then the drivers all out the next, delivery the next and then repeat that every week for a month

Only 4 days loss of pay and not all off the same wage packet

[norris9]

If people were considering leaving.....they will now.

Royal Mail do not value us. A 2% pay rise with a huge string of nonsense to go with it. They are having a laugh.

The National Living Wage went up 6.5% to £9.50 an hour. We aren't earning much more than that for walking 10 miles a day. It's not worth it.

We should be getting a 6.5% pay rise with no strings attached or a 10% pay rise with the strings attached. IMO.

[postslippete]

If people were considering leaving.....they will now.

Royal Mail do not value us. A 2% pay rise with a huge string of nonsense to go with it. They are having a laugh.

The National Living Wage went up 6.5% to £9.50 an hour. We aren't earning much more than that for walking 10 miles a day. It's not worth it.

We should be getting a 6.5% pay rise with no strings attached or a 10% pay rise with the strings attached. IMO.

totally agree

I know someone who works in the office for a large privatised company and because that company made a big profit in the year end accounts they all received a 5% pay rise, no strings attached.

Why is Royal Mail so different?

[richietns]

If people were considering leaving.....they will now.

Royal Mail do not value us. A 2% pay rise with a huge string of nonsense to go with it. They are having a laugh.

The National Living Wage went up 6.5% to £9.50 an hour. We aren't earning much more than that for walking 10 miles a day. It's not worth it.

We should be getting a 6.5% pay rise with no strings attached or a 10% pay rise with the strings attached. IMO.

totally agree

I know someone who works in the office for a large privatised company and because that company made a big profit in the year end accounts they all received a 5% pay rise, no strings attached.

Why is Royal Mail so different?

It depends what that office job was there seems to be a million ways to cut even more costs within RM they are quite relentless,over the years its just become the norm to link a deal with a payrise and the union and us have just accepted it but not this time,this time its to in your face what with us working through a pandemic which lets face it is super rare everyones eyes have been opened including the unions thank god.

[HTPostman]

If people were considering leaving.....they will now.

Royal Mail do not value us. A 2% pay rise with a huge string of nonsense to go with it. They are having a laugh.

The National Living Wage went up 6.5% to £9.50 an hour. We aren't earning much more than that for walking 10 miles a day. It's not worth it.

We should be getting a 6.5% pay rise with no strings attached or a 10% pay rise with the strings attached. IMO.

totally agree

I know someone who works in the office for a large privatised company and because that company made a big profit in the year end accounts they all received a 5% pay rise, no strings attached.

Why is Royal Mail so different?

but not this time,this time its to in your face what with us working through a pandemic which lets face it is super rare everyones eyes have been opened including the unions thank god.

Which is why it’s all the more surprising they have Simon and Ricky doing the bad cop/bad cop routine. You’d think the real management of RM (ie not Simon, who’s just becoming an increasingly condescending irritating mouthpiece) would have someone who reigns it in a bit and can target those who might sway a yes/no vote instead of Simon pretty much criticising and attacking every single one of us.

[richietns]

If people were considering leaving.....they will now.

Royal Mail do not value us. A 2% pay rise with a huge string of nonsense to go with it. They are having a laugh.

The National Living Wage went up 6.5% to £9.50 an hour. We aren't earning much more than that for walking 10 miles a day. It's not worth it.

We should be getting a 6.5% pay rise with no strings attached or a 10% pay rise with the strings attached. IMO.

totally agree

I know someone who works in the office for a large privatised company and because that company made a big profit in the year end accounts they all received a 5% pay rise, no strings attached.

Why is Royal Mail so different?

but not this time,this time its to in your face what with us working through a pandemic which lets face it is super rare everyones eyes have been opened including the unions thank god.

Which is why it’s all the more surprising they have Simon and Ricky doing the bad cop/bad cop routine. You’d think the real management of RM (ie not Simon, who’s just becoming an increasingly condescending irritating mouthpiece) would have someone who reigns it in a bit and can target those who might sway a yes/no vote instead of Simon pretty much criticising and attacking every single one of us.

Capitalism at its worst i soppose,just get what you can out of the workforce the hell with what anyone thinks,start way down low offer.

[Cedar_Room]

Woody. I always value your input on here,you seem very level headed & clued up. Being 100% honest,how do you see this all panning out?

[Woody Guthrie]

Woody. I always value your input on here,you seem very level headed & clued up. Being 100% honest,how do you see this all panning out?

It's in the interest of both parties to find a solution quickly.
The union has demanded no strings and it's difficult to see how they can back down from that position.

However If you read Royal Mail’s opening offer there are actually very few proper strings or commitments to anything other than to "look at" changing some procedures and simplification of allowances, to discuss this and talk about that. The union is already committed to discussing most of these things through previous agreements so I really think it was cobbled together to put the frighteners on the members and cool down this talk of 8-10%.


I think a one year no strings deal at between 5-6% is possible. I think beyond that may be a stretch.
The union will agree to future talks about this and that and then do what it's always done.

The minute the business offers anything without strings all talk of strikes is over because you just don't strike for pay alone. You quickly start throwing good money after bad if you do.

Both sides have to be aware of each other's limitations, it's not in either's interest to destroy the other.

How much peacocking and faffing around goes on first is anyone's guess.

[Cedar_Room]

Woody. I always value your input on here,you seem very level headed & clued up. Being 100% honest,how do you see this all panning out?

It's in the interest of both parties to find a solution quickly.
The union has demanded no strings and it's difficult to see how they can back down from that position.

However If you read Royal Mail’s opening offer there are actually very few proper strings or commitments to anything other than to "look at" changing some procedures and simplification of allowances, to discuss this and talk about that. The union is already committed to discussing most of these things through previous agreements so I really think it was cobbled together to put the frighteners on the members and cool down this talk of 8-10%.


I think a one year no strings deal at between 5-6% is possible. I think beyond that may be a stretch.
The union will agree to future talks about this and that and then do what it's always done.

The minute the business offers anything without strings all talk of strikes is over because you just don't strike for pay alone. You quickly start throwing good money after bad if you do.

Both sides have to be aware of each other's limitations, it's not in either's interest to destroy the other.

How much peacocking and faffing around goes on first is anyone's guess.

Very interesting & all makes sense. Thanks

[postslippete]

When you look at previous pay deals, most of the "strings" that Royal Mail put forward were dismissed out of hand and I'm getting a sense of deja vu again

It is only an initial proposal by Royal Mail after all


1. Increased flexibility and annualised hours. Why do they keep bringing this up?? We do more lapsing in the summer when mail volumes isn't as busy as autumn pressure. Thats how delivery offices have been working for years. You don't need to remove overtime or finishing times. I really don't understand how you can have a shift where you have posties working something like 30 hours in the summer and 40 hours in winter. Am I missing something here or do the powers above really don't have a clue about how it all works on the shop floor?

2. A two tier workforce. Now you can guess how strong the Union will be to oppose this! It will mean a change to a legally binding agreement as well. Its often part-timers that suffer the most, you know like the delivery supplement, which by the way is not for the door to doors, but the hours worked.

3. Reduction in allowances and supplements. Well, I've never been in favour of the workplace coach role. That might save a few pennies...

4. Changing the start and finish times to much later. They always want this. Just seems real strange to me that during the pandemic RM basically cr*pped on the USO mail wise and now they suddenly want to move everyones times to suit the USO?? You really think that everyone is suddenly going to accept working 9 to 5 because Royal Mail want to save money by not flying a few planes? The company has said on many occasions that the emphasis has changed from a letters to a parcels business or are we suddenly more of a letters business again now that we have put the price of stamps up?

5. And I really believe its worth sticking up for our sick leave given the physically demanding job that we do. In fact, I'm nodding off now as I'm typing this having started at 7.30 this morning. Lets get real... the Union fought hard to get us these benefits, we really aren't going to be conceding anything unless we get something really substantial in return.


So having delivered the cross court smash back to RM HQ, we will see what they return with

[Sugar]

So they've offered you all the usual 3.5% pay rise as long as you agree to all their demands!

Same sh!t different year.

Not trying to rub salt in to the wounds but just got a 7.3% pay rise and there were no strings attached other than a possible further increase later in the year when they've done an assessment.

Thank fooook I got out, they just treat the workforce like slaves.

[clashcityrocker]

.... they just treat the workforce like slaves.

I find it worrying that so many people don't understand what slavery is.
Working at Royal Mail is not modern day slavery.

[shaun2urz]

.... they just treat the workforce like slaves.

I find it worrying that so many people don't understand what slavery is.
Working at Royal Mail is not modern day slavery.

And equally, people have no idea what prison life is like. Yet they refer to managers as 'screws'.....

[norris9]

When you look at previous pay deals, most of the "strings" that Royal Mail put forward were dismissed out of hand and I'm getting a sense of deja vu again

It is only an initial proposal by Royal Mail after all


1. Increased flexibility and annualised hours. Why do they keep bringing this up?? We do more lapsing in the summer when mail volumes isn't as busy as autumn pressure. Thats how delivery offices have been working for years. You don't need to remove overtime or finishing times. I really don't understand how you can have a shift where you have posties working something like 30 hours in the summer and 40 hours in winter. Am I missing something here or do the powers above really don't have a clue about how it all works on the shop floor?

Probably something to do with Xmas being so busy and not wanting to pay the massive amounts of overtime they pay during that period.

At least in the past, some days (I guess mostly during the summer) it was light enough that you could do double lapsing and still have time to spare.

In my mail centre it seems to me like those days are gone. Saturdays used to be an absolute breeze over a year ago, these days Saturday's are busy, sometimes as busy as a Wednesday.