Structural revision

[Zicomurphy]

A bit of generalisation going on here I feel. When I think about those who do the overtime in my office it tends to be mainly the part timers and the younger generation. I really don’t recognise this picture of the older, more senior guys grabbing all the overtime. Most of them find just doing their own duty demanding enough and have little interest in doing any extra.

[Dorset Plodder]

A bit of generalisation going on here I feel. When I think about those who do the overtime in my office it tends to be mainly the part timers and the younger generation. I really don’t recognise this picture of the older, more senior guys grabbing all the overtime. Most of them find just doing their own duty demanding enough and have little interest in doing any extra.

Every DO is obviously different. However I don't believe the majority of posts are saying these Old & Bold are actually "working" loads of overtime. It's more a case that over the years due to the seniority situation they've ended up on easier duties (with shorter delivery spans).

They then "Salami Slice" those duties, normaly by bending the DOMs ear EVERY day until they're working even less. Then they'll offer to do some extra Delivery perhaps claiming twice the time it takes them. Then you end up with "Ghosting" where someone's getting paid a lot of money for overtime and actually still ends up finishing before their contracted time.

[Zicomurphy]

I guess it’s partially down to local agreements. For a business that’s so heavily reliant on overtime you would think there would be some strict national guidelines in place on how to allocate overtime in a fair and transparent way.

Our office seems quite fair. We have very little S/A in our office. One of the few S/A’s we have is doing the LAT parcels in the afternoon. I think it’s 4 hours S/A everyday and this was ring fenced from the start for part timers to apply for as a way for them to permanently enhance their income. All ad hoc overtime is offered on an aggregate basis. Separate lists for deliveries and early morning
IPS open to both full time and part time staff. Part time staff are also quite often offered the chance to start earlier and get paid overtime to prep walks. I hear very few complaints. Everyone has a chance to earn a bit extra if they want and the aggregate system avoids accusations of favouritism by making sure everyone is roughly offered the chance to work the same amount of hours.

[clashcityrocker]

There are 3 scenarios:
1. Ad hoc overtime - if a postie phones in sick the duty gets covered on overtime. In theory this is open to all but managers will have their go to guys who will dig them out.
2. Unfilled vacancies - although many on here go on about RM not filling the vacancies, usually this is with union blessing because it provides earning opportunities by working days off. If those vacancies get filled you will hear a lot of squealing but with unemployment rising it should be a union priority to provide employment where it can. When I talk about a moral vacuum at the heart of the CWU that's why.
Ward and Pullinger should be insisting on this not leaving it down to local agreement.
3. And this is my biggest gripe - SA.
Where you have people working their day off on SA they are not only blocking p/t gaining increased contracted hours but keeping people unemployed. It is anti trade union.
If you have 15 f/t staff (and we have more) working their day off on SA they are doing away with 3 f/t floating duties so no opportunity to move from p/t to f/t and then no p/t vacancies for those that want to work.
This isn't trade unionism it is a system of apartheid where a powerful minority maintain their privileged position at the expense of others.

Sometimes you have to take from the rich to give to the poor.
And I don't remember anyone telling Robin Hood to stop messing in class politics and join Momentum.

[Dorset Plodder]

3. And this is my biggest gripe - SA.
Where you have people working their day off on SA they are not only blocking p/t gaining increased contracted hours but keeping people unemployed. It is anti trade union.
If you have 15 f/t staff (and we have more) working their day off on SA they are doing away with 3 f/t floating duties so no opportunity to move from p/t to f/t and then no p/t vacancies for those that want to work.
This isn't trade unionism it is a system of apartheid where a powerful minority maintain their privileged position at the expense of others.

I agree with you that OPGs working their days off certainly loads the system in an unfair way. Apart from the points you've made we always have trouble when that OPG goes on leave .... the Reserves have no idea of how the duty works (Mainly on Rurals) as they only get to do it a couple of times a year.

I mentioned it to the DOM that really the Reserve should be asked if he minds getting bumped off that duty every time, and normally put on a shite one, but you just get told, "Operation Requirements"

Some of our guys are willing to go to a nearby DO to work their days off, to give them credit, but the usual suspects (who've been on the same duty for the last 20 years ) kick off about not be given the chance to earn extra OT. How's about learning some of the other duties in the DO then?

[DGH]

There are 3 scenarios:
1. Ad hoc overtime - if a postie phones in sick the duty gets covered on overtime. In theory this is open to all but managers will have their go to guys who will dig them out.
2. Unfilled vacancies - although many on here go on about RM not filling the vacancies, usually this is with union blessing because it provides earning opportunities by working days off. If those vacancies get filled you will hear a lot of squealing but with unemployment rising it should be a union priority to provide employment where it can. When I talk about a moral vacuum at the heart of the CWU that's why.
Ward and Pullinger should be insisting on this not leaving it down to local agreement.
3. And this is my biggest gripe - SA.
Where you have people working their day off on SA they are not only blocking p/t gaining increased contracted hours but keeping people unemployed. It is anti trade union.
If you have 15 f/t staff (and we have more) working their day off on SA they are doing away with 3 f/t floating duties so no opportunity to move from p/t to f/t and then no p/t vacancies for those that want to work.
This isn't trade unionism it is a system of apartheid where a powerful minority maintain their privileged position at the expense of others.

Sometimes you have to take from the rich to give to the poor.
And I don't remember anyone telling Robin Hood to stop messing in class politics and join Momentum.

Couldn't agree more.

There are a few full timers in my office (only a few) who work every single day off if they possibly can - but always say they'll only come in if they can do a specific job, sometimes "their job", sometimes just one they like or that is especially cushy, but regardless if that means the floater or a reserve due to cover it gets moved. And they always get their way. None of these men (they're all men) are actually desperate for the money, I think a couple of them have nothing else to do but work and drink, and the rest have just got used to the extra income.

We have loads of folk on 20 and 24 hour contracts who are desperate for more contracted hours (most of them work full time hours when they possibly can). They're mostly relatively young and needing to pay rent/mortgage and bring up kids, unlike the aforesaid F/Ts who mostly own their homes outright and have grown up kids, or are single with only a bar tab to support.

[HTPostman]

I work a lot of my days off because I’m on 25 hours and I’m practically begged to do so (as I’ve mentioned before, 40% of work here has to be done on OT). However I genuinely would not have a problem if I was told no more OT/days off as we are giving some other young uns some employment. I know I’m in the minority though.

The OT that annoys me more than any other are people working their holidays. Each to their own but I just don’t agree with it. Our workplace coach works all but 1 (sometimes 2) weeks of her annual leave. Mind you that coach regularly leaves a special a mile down the road with the recipients relative if the recipient isn’t in, I’ve pointed out to her if ever a denial of receipt comes in and GPS shows it a mile away she’s in trouble but the reply I get is it’s about helping the customer.

[clashcityrocker]

The OT that annoys me more than any other are people working their holidays. Each to their own but I just don’t agree with it.

It is specifically covered in the Way Forward Agreement.
It isn't allowed.
But you know - national agreements are fluid .......

[Dorset Plodder]

The OT that annoys me more than any other are people working their holidays. Each to their own but I just don’t agree with it.

It is specifically covered in the Way Forward Agreement.
It isn't allowed.
But you know - national agreements are fluid .......

What I'd like to know is ..... How hard are those Duties? If you're willing to give up your Rest Days & Holidays?

I don't know about you but at the end of most days I'm knacked! I look forward to my Rest Days & Holidays so I can have a break .... the weekend really is a light at the end of the tunnel that I look forward to.

[SpacePhoenix]

The OT that annoys me more than any other are people working their holidays. Each to their own but I just don’t agree with it.

It is specifically covered in the Way Forward Agreement.
It isn't allowed.
But you know - national agreements are fluid .......

Could they be working their wally week?

[DGH]

Some might be working a rest week.

However people 'legitimately' work their holidays like this:

Manager: Mate, we're desperate for cover on round X next week, can you cancel your holiday and do it?
Postie: Sure.

Postie then doesn't rebook his holiday and, as all weeks have been fully booked for the year anyway 'reluctantly' accepts payment in lieu because they can't carry over 'so many days'.

Simple.

[Woody Guthrie]

What they tend to do to fiddle it through the books is leave it on the system as A\L and then the following week put through 38 hrs OT.
This makes it look like they've taken their annual leave.

[Martin Walsh]

Listening to some of the comments on here, you would think someone performing overtime was somehow a crime and it was stopping someone from having a job. Oh and it is somehow anti trade union to do so.

This is bizarre. Most overtime is as a result of on the day stuff such as sick leave , machine break down , protracted overtime as a result of either heavier traffic or a pipeline failure. Royal Mail are not going to pay out on increasing jobs or part time contracts which will include extra pensions costs , extra national insurance cost , extra annual leave costs and uniform cost simply on unplanned and variable spend.

On pre planned overtime such as pre starts , pressure , Christmas, valentines , Mother’s Day etc again this is not going to be built into TM1s.

In terms of SA , when you agree a revision you agree a attendance pattern which drives full time and part time duties. You also agree either rest day cover duties or SA rest day cover duties. We are talking about just rest day SA’s how will that in itself employ new employees ?

The vast majority of the uk are on a rolling rotating rest day so they maybe on an 7 or 8 SA on their rest day. How do you give this to a part timer to increase their contract ? The part timer might already be in work so working on the day ?

There are very few 4 days weeks in the UK , in London there are only 18 offices who have a 4 day week out of the 140 so it is important to put things in context. There are 4 day week offices or duties in every division.

Additionally out of the top 10 offices in the UK in terms of productivity there are 3 from London so I know everyone seems to think London is the least productive in the UK but the formula is quite clear your weighted traffic ( that is all traffic you deliver ) divided by your work hours )

[Woody Guthrie]

The vast majority of the uk are on a rolling rotating rest day so they maybe on an 7 or 8 SA on their rest day. How do you give this to a part timer to increase their contract ? The part timer might already be in work so working on the day ?

We're not stupid Martin, stop building strawmen.
It's not a case of giving an individual part-time hours on a particular day it's about building a revision utilising all of the hours to maximise employment and contracts over individual earning opportunities.

What's more important in the present circumstances?

[neil1969]

Martin,Any information about the 24 points you & your mates haven't agreed on?