Masks for indoor work

[k979aaa]

Immunity is not the same as transmission your dog or cat could transmit Covid-19 as could someone touching a discarded face mask and then touch a door handle. This is why infections are rising as well as non ventilation of offices and homes due too the cold weather schools also are a big factor!

[Pumpernickel]

Immunity is not the same as transmission.

Ok: if you accept that then how does your "Barrington Declaration" do anything to help the vulnerable?

How does a nursing home staffed entirely by people who have been infected, recovered, and thus gained immunity, isolate those vulnerable people from the virus?

The answer is: it doesn't.

[Woody Guthrie]

The biggest factor is hot air and there's no shortage of that.
I've heard every excuse going for not doing the most basic thing, acting like a f***ing grown up.

I would hate to think what would happen if we ever faced a real crisis like a World War where people were asked to make genuine sacrifices not just wear a mask and stop going to the pub for a few months.

[k979aaa]

Immunity is not the same as transmission.

Ok: if you accept that then how does your "Barrington Declaration" do anything to help the vulnerable?

How does a nursing home staffed entirely by people who have been infected, recovered, and thus gained immunity, isolate those vulnerable people from the virus?

The answer is: it doesn't.

We need a vaccine for those who care for the elderly and for the elderly themselves and those who have conditions which make them more likely to get very ill or die of this virus most people should not need this vaccine but people over a certain age and with health conditions need a vaccine. People have been shielding from the virus till a vaccine can achieve immunity from the virus, The virus cannot be controlled as you have seen it is now endemic in the population most people who get a virus will become immune to that virus but some like 1 in a million could get it again .The virus could mutate indeed it has 30 plus mutations it could weaken or become more virulent over time. One thing is for sure the virus is not going away we have to live with the virus!

[Pumpernickel]

We need a vaccine for those who care for the elderly and for the elderly themselves and those who have conditions which make them more likely to get very ill or die of this virus

We do. We don't have one that is available at the appropriate scale though. It's likely to take over a year to vaccinate enough for "herd immunity" IF herd immunity is something that can be achieved (probably can but we don't actually know for sure yet).

People have been shielding from the virus till a vaccine can achieve immunity from the virus, The virus cannot be controlled as you have seen it is now endemic in the population most people who get a virus will become immune to that virus but some like 1 in a million could get it again .The virus could mutate indeed it has 30 plus mutations it could weaken or become more virulent over time. One thing is for sure the virus is not going away we have to live with the virus!

There's no hard evidence for 1 in a million getting it again (I assume by this you mean "becoming ill with it again"). We don't know the numbers and won't until enough time has passed.

The vaccine is not 100% effective. The Pfizer vaccine (rushed through and currently being administered by the UK) is 95% effective, meaning 1 in 20 won't gain immunity from it: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03441-8

Most people who recover gain immunity (you correctly use the word "most" which isn't "all"), but that does not stop those immune people spreading to others who are not immune, and it glosses over the reality of recovery with a large portion of recoverees suffering long term effects that cannot remotely be understood this early.

The virus is mutating all the time. There is already a more virulent strain that has caused the need for Tier 4 in large areas. It may be that we have to live with this virus in some form long term, and as such it may be that masks for indoor public areas are a good idea long term. This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

[k979aaa]

We need a vaccine for those who care for the elderly and for the elderly themselves and those who have conditions which make them more likely to get very ill or die of this virus

We do. We don't have one that is available at the appropriate scale though. It's likely to take over a year to vaccinate enough for "herd immunity" IF herd immunity is something that can be achieved (probably can but we don't actually know for sure yet).

People have been shielding from the virus till a vaccine can achieve immunity from the virus, The virus cannot be controlled as you have seen it is now endemic in the population most people who get a virus will become immune to that virus but some like 1 in a million could get it again .The virus could mutate indeed it has 30 plus mutations it could weaken or become more virulent over time. One thing is for sure the virus is not going away we have to live with the virus!

There's no hard evidence for 1 in a million getting it again (I assume by this you mean "becoming ill with it again"). We don't know the numbers and won't until enough time has passed.

The vaccine is not 100% effective. The Pfizer vaccine (rushed through and currently being administered by the UK) is 95% effective, meaning 1 in 20 won't gain immunity from it: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03441-8

Most people who recover gain immunity (you correctly use the word "most" which isn't "all"), but that does not stop those immune people spreading to others who are not immune, and it glosses over the reality of recovery with a large portion of recoverees suffering long term effects that cannot remotely be understood this early.

The virus is mutating all the time. There is already a more virulent strain that has caused the need for Tier 4 in large areas. It may be that we have to live with this virus in some form long term, and as such it may be that masks for indoor public areas are a good idea long term. This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

Hears a concept for you all don't visit old people send your kids too school and don't go too work and travel the world where you can and ware a sock on your face and yet have meeting's business or chit chat at a table afterwards. Still made no difference if your going to die you will. Sorry for being harsh but lot's of young people are on the brink of Killing themselves because of the crisis! I do think they should be given a chance before me and others too live.

[Pumpernickel]

Hears a concept for you all don't visit old people

I deliver to old people as part of my job, and that necessitates walking around sheltered accomodation where old people live. I also see old people in shops, hospitals, and other public buildings: they have lives too.

send your kids too school and don't go too work and travel the world where you can and ware a sock on your face and yet have meeting's business or chit chat at a table afterwards.

I understand you here. The "rules" are quite contradictory, so I don't go by the rules as written and use some sense (wear a mask indoors). As I said previously: it isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

Still made no difference if your going to die you will.

I'm going to die, yes, though I have no qualms about reducing the possibility of other peoples death to be with some weird bell jar clamped on their head and a tube down their throat while they gasp for breath. That reduction can come about from a piece of cloth over my mouth and nose when indoors with other people I don't live with, so it's no inconvenience to me.

Sorry for being harsh but lot's of young people are on the brink of Killing themselves because of the crisis! I do think they should be given a chance before me and others too live.

I wish I could believe you were sorry, but I don't. The amount of energy you put into contorting yourself away from a piece of cloth in certain situations is genuinely baffling.

People need more support that the government don't want to provide, but that's got nothing to do with wearing a mask. Mental health issues have needed more positive action for decades, but that also has little to do with wearing a mask (aside from a tiny minority of edge cases that brings about PTSD).

Odd that you purport to care about some who you feel are being locked away unreasonably, and wish to mitigate this by forcing others to be locked away unreasonably instead. All because a piece of cloth is too much for you to contend with.

[milly]

"Immunity" from an infection doesn't stop someone getting that infection, or spreading that infection, at all. It stops further infection developing into a full blown illness. Immunity means your body has the ability to fight an infection off quickly. It means you don't notice the symptoms of infection because your body deals with it quickly enough. Essentially immune people will be like any other asymptomatic spreader, but spreading the virus to others for a shorter duration.
[/quote]

A recent study from China reported in the BMJ casts doubt on whether asymptomatic people are infectious.

[k979aaa]

At the end of the day masks don't work if they did why are we in this position?
It is mostly to do with kid's fine let them have it problem comes with vulnerable people getting it.
We need to vaccinate the vulnerable people fast but also the workers in the NHS not the pen pushers who get it before front line staff!

[SpacePhoenix]

We need to vaccinate the vulnerable people fast but also the workers in the NHS not the pen pushers who get it before front line staff!

and anyone else who's liable to come into contact with many people from outside of their household during the course of their job

[k979aaa]

We need to vaccinate the vulnerable people fast but also the workers in the NHS not the pen pushers who get it before front line staff!

and anyone else who's liable to come into contact with many people from outside of their household during the course of their job

Not really because it is better that your own immune system deals with this virus the vaccine is a booster of the immune system.

[Pumpernickel]

We need to vaccinate the vulnerable people fast but also the workers in the NHS not the pen pushers who get it before front line staff!

and anyone else who's liable to come into contact with many people from outside of their household during the course of their job

Not really because it is better that your own immune system deals with this virus the vaccine is a booster of the immune system.

The vaccine is an inactive facsimile of part of the virus that allows your immune system to see that part and learn to target that part. It's kinda like a mugshot and some specific manhandling training, so your immune system recognises the virus and knows how to knock it out. Pretty much what happens when you gain immunity the old fashioned way but without the same risk.

[k979aaa]

We need to vaccinate the vulnerable people fast but also the workers in the NHS not the pen pushers who get it before front line staff!

and anyone else who's liable to come into contact with many people from outside of their household during the course of their job

Not really because it is better that your own immune system deals with this virus the vaccine is a booster of the immune system.

The vaccine is an inactive facsimile of part of the virus that allows your immune system to see that part and learn to target that part. It's kinda like a mugshot and some specific manhandling training, so your immune system recognises the virus and knows how to knock it out. Pretty much what happens when you gain immunity the old fashioned way but without the same risk.

Why do you need a vaccine if your own immune system recognised it and delt with it ?

[Pumpernickel]

We need to vaccinate the vulnerable people fast but also the workers in the NHS not the pen pushers who get it before front line staff!

and anyone else who's liable to come into contact with many people from outside of their household during the course of their job

Not really because it is better that your own immune system deals with this virus the vaccine is a booster of the immune system.

The vaccine is an inactive facsimile of part of the virus that allows your immune system to see that part and learn to target that part. It's kinda like a mugshot and some specific manhandling training, so your immune system recognises the virus and knows how to knock it out. Pretty much what happens when you gain immunity the old fashioned way but without the same risk.

Why do you need a vaccine if your own immune system recognised it and delt with it ?

Because it can't recognise something it haven't seen, so you allow the immune system to see it via the part in the vaccine (like a mugshot) so when the real virus turns up (the actual person the mugshot is of) the immune system recognises it and deals with it.

If you haven't had the virus or vaccine, your immune system can't recognise anything and has to learn the hard way.

[milly]

We need to vaccinate the vulnerable people fast but also the workers in the NHS not the pen pushers who get it before front line staff!

and anyone else who's liable to come into contact with many people from outside of their household during the course of their job

Not really because it is better that your own immune system deals with this virus the vaccine is a booster of the immune system.

The vaccine is an inactive facsimile of part of the virus that allows your immune system to see that part and learn to target that part. It's kinda like a mugshot and some specific manhandling training, so your immune system recognises the virus and knows how to knock it out. Pretty much what happens when you gain immunity the old fashioned way but without the same risk.

Why do you need a vaccine if your own immune system recognised it and delt with it ?

Because it can't recognise something it haven't seen, so you allow the immune system to see it via the part in the vaccine (like a mugshot) so when the real virus turns up (the actual person the mugshot is of) the immune system recognises it and deals with it.

If you haven't had the virus or vaccine, your immune system can't recognise anything and has to learn the hard way.

Your last sentence simply isn't true as many people will already have pre-existing immunity to Covid-19.
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563