A spreadsheet to make RM pension illustrations easier and more visual to understand!!

[nodboy]

Great document, only one error, the lump sum calculations are incorrect, cell Q11 should read

=L14-F18

because you need to subtract the pension supplement that is itemized below.

Thank you for your valuable feedback and I agree and have made the alteration. Good spot!!!!!!

[Aquarius]

Great document, only one error, the lump sum calculations are incorrect, cell Q11 should read

=L14-F18

because you need to subtract the pension supplement that is itemized below.

Thank you for your valuable feedback and I agree and have made the alteration. Good spot!!!!!!

Good job - for taking the time and making the effort

[mrcurve]

nice work, noticed a typo on annual.

[nodboy]

nice work, noticed a typo on annual.

Thank you, I welcome your feedback and the correction has been made!!!

[mr hil.]

Here is a quick Spreadsheet I have made too, just add the figures from your statements in the correct columns and any AVCs you may have.

Experiment with your planned retirement age by adding or changing it in the first column of the last table to get an idea of how changing this effects your final figures. This is all based roughly on my knowledge of how things stand for section C members but I would welcome any feedback or constructive advice.

I purposely ignored the lifetime allowance calculations because very few of us rank and file posties will get anywhere near the maximum allowances.


Edited the file download after further advice and feedback

RM Pensions and lump sum Calculator1.xlsx

[freespeech]

Here is a quick Spreadsheet I have made too, just add the figures from your statements in the correct columns and any AVCs you may have.

Experiment with your planned retirement age by adding or changing it in the first column of the last table to get an idea of how changing this effects your final figures. This is all based roughly on my knowledge of how things stand for section C members but I would welcome any feedback or constructive advice.

I purposely ignored the lifetime allowance calculations because very few of us rank and file posties will get anywhere near the maximum allowances.

RM Pensions and lump sum Calculator1.xlsx

My observation is that the calculation for taking either pension early lists the max pension and the max lump sum when, in practice, the max pension would be with no LS or the max LS would be with a reduced pension.

[mr hil.]

Thanks Freespeech I thought about this and felt that showing the two Max values was what most people would like to see.

The commutation rates are a mystery to me and offer up so many variables which are beyond this simple spreadsheet to show and I could not really show results of receiving less pension etc. with any sort of accuracy or clarity.

The maximum available tax free lump sum amount is just offered as a guide to how much is possible, how that lump sum is funded would be down to personal circumstances and choices. e.g. by having a large enough AVC pot to not have to reduce your annual pension at all (my personal goal)

[freespeech]

Thanks Freespeech I thought about this and felt that showing the two Max values was what most people would like to see.

The commutation rates are a mystery to me and offer up so many variables which are beyond this simple spreadsheet to show and I could not really show results of receiving less pension etc. with any sort of accuracy or clarity.

The maximum available tax free lump sum amount is just offered as a guide to how much is possible, how that lump sum is funded would be down to personal circumstances and choices. e.g. by having a large enough AVC pot to not have to reduce your annual pension at all (my personal goal)

My concern is that currently it reads as if you get BOTH.

[nodboy]

Here is a quick Spreadsheet I have made too, just add the figures from your statements in the correct columns and any AVCs you may have.

Experiment with your planned retirement age by adding or changing it in the first column of the last table to get an idea of how changing this effects your final figures. This is all based roughly on my knowledge of how things stand for section C members but I would welcome any feedback or constructive advice.

I purposely ignored the lifetime allowance calculations because very few of us rank and file posties will get anywhere near the maximum allowances.

RM Pensions and lump sum Calculator1.xlsx

Great work here more for the more advanced pensions thinker A small point with the 25% lump sum values these can be problematic to estimate because of different variations i.e. NRA60 value has the pension supplement value in it (which you wouldn't get if you work past 60) but no 25% of AVC value included, however some advice from Robert T on what you get & when you get it could solve this issue.

Excellent starting point for CDC when it comes!!!

[mr hil.]

Thanks Freespeech I thought about this and felt that showing the two Max values was what most people would like to see.

The commutation rates are a mystery to me and offer up so many variables which are beyond this simple spreadsheet to show and I could not really show results of receiving less pension etc. with any sort of accuracy or clarity.

The maximum available tax free lump sum amount is just offered as a guide to how much is possible, how that lump sum is funded would be down to personal circumstances and choices. e.g. by having a large enough AVC pot to not have to reduce your annual pension at all (my personal goal)

My concern is that currently it reads as if you get BOTH.

I have edited the original file to include a statement about possible reductions due to taking a lump sum not funded by AVC and DBCB
I have also tweaked the calculations after noticing an error(sorry)

[nodboy]

Here is a quick Spreadsheet I have made too, just add the figures from your statements in the correct columns and any AVCs you may have.

Experiment with your planned retirement age by adding or changing it in the first column of the last table to get an idea of how changing this effects your final figures. This is all based roughly on my knowledge of how things stand for section C members but I would welcome any feedback or constructive advice.

I purposely ignored the lifetime allowance calculations because very few of us rank and file posties will get anywhere near the maximum allowances.

RM Pensions and lump sum Calculator1.xlsx

My observation is that the calculation for taking either pension early lists the max pension and the max lump sum when, in practice, the max pension would be with no LS or the max LS would be with a reduced pension.

Why not have both max lump sum and max pension and fund with AVC???? There is always a reduction when taken early why not get the most you can!!!!!

[freespeech]

Here is a quick Spreadsheet I have made too, just add the figures from your statements in the correct columns and any AVCs you may have.

Experiment with your planned retirement age by adding or changing it in the first column of the last table to get an idea of how changing this effects your final figures. This is all based roughly on my knowledge of how things stand for section C members but I would welcome any feedback or constructive advice.

I purposely ignored the lifetime allowance calculations because very few of us rank and file posties will get anywhere near the maximum allowances.

RM Pensions and lump sum Calculator1.xlsx

My observation is that the calculation for taking either pension early lists the max pension and the max lump sum when, in practice, the max pension would be with no LS or the max LS would be with a reduced pension.

Why not have both max lump sum and max pension and fund with AVC???? There is always a reduction when taken early why not get the most you can!!!!!

My understanding is that you would have needed to do that from the start as new AVC’s can’t always fund an old lump sum. For example, I don’t think you could start an AVC now to fund the LS for the final salary element of NRA60.

[RobertT]

Here is a quick Spreadsheet I have made too, just add the figures from your statements in the correct columns and any AVCs you may have.

Experiment with your planned retirement age by adding or changing it in the first column of the last table to get an idea of how changing this effects your final figures. This is all based roughly on my knowledge of how things stand for section C members but I would welcome any feedback or constructive advice.

I purposely ignored the lifetime allowance calculations because very few of us rank and file posties will get anywhere near the maximum allowances.

RM Pensions and lump sum Calculator1.xlsx

My observation is that the calculation for taking either pension early lists the max pension and the max lump sum when, in practice, the max pension would be with no LS or the max LS would be with a reduced pension.

Why not have both max lump sum and max pension and fund with AVC???? There is always a reduction when taken early why not get the most you can!!!!!

My understanding is that you would have needed to do that from the start as new AVC’s can’t always fund an old lump sum. For example, I don’t think you could start an AVC now to fund the LS for the final salary element of NRA60.

Your understanding is wrong, I'm afraid.

You can pay into Bonusplan and/or Flexiplan as long you're an active employee member of the RMPP, which currently means you're paying into the DBCBS.

The sum saved can be used to fund the lump sum associated with NRA60 and/or NRA65 benefits, regardless of how far into the past you began accruing those benefits.

[freespeech]

Here is a quick Spreadsheet I have made too, just add the figures from your statements in the correct columns and any AVCs you may have.

Experiment with your planned retirement age by adding or changing it in the first column of the last table to get an idea of how changing this effects your final figures. This is all based roughly on my knowledge of how things stand for section C members but I would welcome any feedback or constructive advice.

I purposely ignored the lifetime allowance calculations because very few of us rank and file posties will get anywhere near the maximum allowances.

RM Pensions and lump sum Calculator1.xlsx

My observation is that the calculation for taking either pension early lists the max pension and the max lump sum when, in practice, the max pension would be with no LS or the max LS would be with a reduced pension.

Why not have both max lump sum and max pension and fund with AVC???? There is always a reduction when taken early why not get the most you can!!!!!

My understanding is that you would have needed to do that from the start as new AVC’s can’t always fund an old lump sum. For example, I don’t think you could start an AVC now to fund the LS for the final salary element of NRA60.

Your understanding is wrong, I'm afraid.

You can pay into Bonusplan and/or Flexiplan as long you're an active employee member of the RMPP, which currently means you're paying into the DBCBS.

The sum saved can be used to fund the lump sum associated with NRA60 and/or NRA65 benefits, regardless of how far into the past you began accruing those benefits.

I'm so pleased to be wrong as that helps my position a lot. However, it does further reinforce my point about pension estimates being a mess when you can't see the final position (inc AVC's and and cash balance impact) until you have signed to take your pension. So are you saying I can use all my £21k cash balance fund and all of my bonusplan/flexiplan AVC's of £10k to fund £31k of my LS for NRA60? I also have a possible VR option and was thinking of putting £20k of that back into an AVC (rather than pay tax) so that is now £51k towards my NRA60 LS.

[RobertT]

I'm so pleased to be wrong as that helps my position a lot. However, it does further reinforce my point about pension estimates being a mess when you can't see the final position (inc AVC's and and cash balance impact) until you have signed to take your pension.

I can't disagree!

So are you saying I can use all my £21k cash balance fund and all of my bonusplan/flexiplan AVC's of £10k to fund £31k of my LS for NRA60?

The DBCBS is 'attached' to the RMPP and so is mainly used to fund the lump sum associated with RMPP(2012-2018) benefits, plus a small amount of pre 2012 benefits which the RMPP are also responsible for paying. A point that's been mentioned on these forums several times before.

Any excess DBCBS cash, once the tax free element has been paid, will be available to you as a UFPLS, which means the first 25% of that excess will also be tax free, with the remainder coming under normal PAYE tax rules.

Going by your previous posts, I have a much smaller NRA60 pension than you and I expect to take a tax free lump sum of around £52,000 from my AVC's. So your £10,000 will be well within the 25% tax free limit.
IF you want a bigger lump sum, then that will be funded by commuting some of your pension, plus a relatively small amount of DBCBS as mentioned above.

I also have a possible VR option and was thinking of putting £20k of that back into an AVC (rather than pay tax) so that is now £51k towards my NRA60 LS.

That's a possibility, but payments into AVC's have to be done via payroll so you'll need to get in touch with them to ensure you can actually do what you propose.

Another option might be to put your taxed amount into a personal pension, as you'll effectively get the tax back.