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Job Losses and the end of USO

Latest news, comm's, LTB'S, and discussion on 'The pathway to change'.
Sugar
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 431
Joined: 08 Jul 2007, 07:57
Gender: Female

Job Losses and the end of USO

Post by Sugar »

chickenwittle wrote:But would you trust the Cwu to be honest and tell us if the company were proposing mon/fri , I don’t as they know it would be popular with the workforce.
Same as you, No, because as you say it would be popular with a lot of the workforce (me included) and the CWU would panic and think it would just lead to a lot job losses with the lack of cover needed for days out during the week. TBH a lot of those could be taken up with the new LAT duties needed but can't see the union seeing that straight off the bat.
mattjo1@talktalk.net wrote:The USO will go it has to.
It will but its how its done is the issue. RM will more than likely go for it with a big axe and the union will be more long winded about it. Frontline staff will have a better idea of how it could be done but neither the RM or CWU will properly listen to them going by past experiences.
hero22
Posts: 556
Joined: 21 Mar 2016, 19:48
Gender: Male

Job Losses and the end of USO

Post by hero22 »

Sugar wrote:
chickenwittle wrote:But would you trust the Cwu to be honest and tell us if the company were proposing mon/fri , I don’t as they know it would be popular with the workforce.
Same as you, No, because as you say it would be popular with a lot of the workforce (me included) and the CWU would panic and think it would just lead to a lot job losses with the lack of cover needed for days out during the week. TBH a lot of those could be taken up with the new LAT duties needed but can't see the union seeing that straight off the bat.
mattjo1@talktalk.net wrote:The USO will go it has to.
It will but its how its done is the issue. RM will more than likely go for it with a big axe and the union will be more long winded about it. Frontline staff will have a better idea of how it could be done but neither the RM or CWU will properly listen to them going by past experiences.

Why does USO have to go ? It may be a hinderance to Royal Mail management but its not them deciding whether it goes or not. is it not OFCOM does that ?
mattjo1@talktalk.net
Posts: 93
Joined: 20 Jun 2014, 21:11
Gender: Male

Job Losses and the end of USO

Post by mattjo1@talktalk.net »

hero22 wrote:
Sugar wrote:
chickenwittle wrote:But would you trust the Cwu to be honest and tell us if the company were proposing mon/fri , I don’t as they know it would be popular with the workforce.
Same as you, No, because as you say it would be popular with a lot of the workforce (me included) and the CWU would panic and think it would just lead to a lot job losses with the lack of cover needed for days out during the week. TBH a lot of those could be taken up with the new LAT duties needed but can't see the union seeing that straight off the bat.
mattjo1@talktalk.net wrote:The USO will go it has to.
It will but its how its done is the issue. RM will more than likely go for it with a big axe and the union will be more long winded about it. Frontline staff will have a better idea of how it could be done but neither the RM or CWU will properly listen to them going by past experiences.

Why does USO have to go ? It may be a hinderance to Royal Mail management but its not them deciding whether it goes or not. is it not OFCOM does that ?

Rico has already gone to parliament to discuss it, it will go.
Murdoch
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 572
Joined: 11 Apr 2018, 16:55
Gender: Male

Job Losses and the end of USO

Post by Murdoch »

mattjo1@talktalk.net wrote: Rico has already gone to parliament to discuss it, it will go.
Please flesh out what you mean by "it will go".

The USO is a requirement of the Universal Service provider (i.e. Royal Mail). This is enshrined in law, the mechanism for changing the terms of the USO, is via OFCOM reviews, in which they can recommend to the secretary of state to change the minimum requirements. The 6 days a week service is part of this, as is the standard price for anywhere in the UK, and access to collection services 6 days a week.

Rico going to parliament doesn't do much at all. OFCOM is the regulator, it has a strict remit to maintain the sustainability of the universal service.

There is a way to get out of the USO completely, and that is to stop being the Universal Service provider, only in those circumstances could you say the USO would be "gone from Royal Mail".

I don't know how many times I will have to say it, but while we're a private company, we're still regulated like a public service. And function like one, we provide a basic public service, in which the minimum requirements are set by the Postal Services Act 2011.

Below is the process for changing those:

34Review of minimum requirements

(1)OFCOM may from time to time review the extent to which the provision made by section 31 reflects the reasonable needs of the users of postal services provided in the United Kingdom.

(2)A review under subsection (1) may, in particular, consider whether the requirements imposed by that section could be altered so as better to reflect those needs.

(3)OFCOM must send a copy of each review under subsection (1) to the Secretary of State.

(4)The Secretary of State may at any time direct OFCOM to carry out a review under subsection (1).

(5)Where OFCOM have carried out a review under subsection (1), the Secretary of State may by order amend section 31.

(6)The provision that may be made by an order under subsection (5) does not include the making of different provision in relation to different places in the United Kingdom.

(7)An order under subsection (5)—

(a)is subject to affirmative resolution procedure, and

(b)may include such amendments of this Part as the Secretary of State considers necessary or expedient in consequence of any provision made by the order.
And here are the minimum requirements as they stand today:

31Minimum requirements

This section sets out the services that must, as a minimum, be included in a universal postal service.

Requirement 1: delivery of letters or other postal packets
(1)

At least one delivery of letters every Monday to Saturday—
(a)

to the home or premises of every individual or other person in the United Kingdom, or
(b)

to such identifiable points for the delivery of postal packets as OFCOM may approve.
(2)

At least one delivery of other postal packets every Monday to Friday to the places within paragraph (1)(a) or (b).
(3)

The references in this requirement to the delivery of letters or other postal packets include the delivery of packets posted outside the United Kingdom.

Requirement 2: collection of letters or other postal packets
(1)

At least one collection of letters every Monday to Saturday from every access point in the United Kingdom used for the purpose of receiving postal packets, or any class of them, for onwards transmission in connection with the provision of a universal postal service.
(2)

At least one collection of other postal packets every Monday to Friday from every access point in the United Kingdom used for that purpose.
(3)

The references in this requirement to the onwards transmission of letters or other postal packets include their onwards transmission to places outside the United Kingdom.

Requirement 3: service at affordable prices in accordance with uniform public tariff
(1)

A service of conveying postal packets from one place to another by post (including the incidental services of receiving, collecting, sorting and delivering them) at affordable prices determined in accordance with a public tariff which is uniform throughout the United Kingdom.
(2)

The reference in this requirement to conveying postal packets from one place to another includes conveying them to places outside the United Kingdom.

Requirement 4: registered items service

A registered items service at affordable prices determined in accordance with a public tariff which is uniform throughout the United Kingdom.

Requirement 5: insured items service

An insured items service at affordable prices determined in accordance with a public tariff which is uniform throughout the United Kingdom.

Requirement 6: services to blind or partially sighted

The provision free of charge of such postal services as are specified in the universal postal service order to such descriptions of blind or partially sighted persons as are so specified.

Requirement 7: legislative petitions and addresses

A service of conveying free of charge qualifying legislative petitions and addresses.
Sugar
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 431
Joined: 08 Jul 2007, 07:57
Gender: Female

Job Losses and the end of USO

Post by Sugar »

Murdoch wrote: Please flesh out what you mean by "it will go".

The USO is a requirement of the Universal Service provider (i.e. Royal Mail). This is enshrined in law, the mechanism for changing the terms of the USO, is via OFCOM reviews, in which they can recommend to the secretary of state to change the minimum requirements. The 6 days a week service is part of this, as is the standard price for anywhere in the UK, and access to collection services 6 days a week.

Rico going to parliament doesn't do much at all. OFCOM is the regulator, it has a strict remit to maintain the sustainability of the universal service.

There is a way to get out of the USO completely, and that is to stop being the Universal Service provider, only in those circumstances could you say the USO would be "gone from Royal Mail".

I don't know how many times I will have to say it, but while we're a private company, we're still regulated like a public service. And function like one, we provide a basic public service, in which the minimum requirements are set by the Postal Services Act 2011.
It will be argued that the continual decline in letter mail can't sustain a six day a week USO for letters. We'll end up moving to the Dutch model in the not so distant future and I think we all know that.

Let's be honest there was a humongous balls up when the postal market was opened up like it was. You can't have a level playing field when there is only one major company delivering lettered mail. If a company collected the mail then they should have been the ones to deliver it. Not the chaos that's downstream access that we know the company had its hands tied with how much they could charge. It was bound to fail and it has. TNT delivering mail didn't last 12 months IIRC.

Could the union and company done more? Probably but we'll never know.
Binsey
Posts: 389
Joined: 14 Aug 2015, 17:33
Gender: Male

Job Losses and the end of USO

Post by Binsey »

Isle of Man anybody????


It begins.....
Ren Hoëk
Posts: 737
Joined: 01 Feb 2018, 12:19
Gender: Male

Job Losses and the end of USO

Post by Ren Hoëk »

Binsey wrote:Isle of Man anybody????


It begins.....

The isle of man post office is a separate company to that of Royal Mail. It also operates in a wildly different economic and geographic area. Im not even sure they are subject to any form of USO. They also reported loses in 2017/2018. I wouldn't be drawing comparisons as such but it would be hard to deny that Rico would love to drop a day!
clashcityrocker
Posts: 16215
Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 13:50
Gender: Male
Location: strummerville

Job Losses and the end of USO

Post by clashcityrocker »

The Isle of Man is a strange entity.
It isn't part of the UK and it isn't part of the EU.
The people who live there drink. 10 000 alcoholics out of a population of 84 000.
Even Cambuslang would be hard pushed to match that.
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
Acca Dacca
Posts: 3168
Joined: 16 Aug 2009, 17:13
Gender: Male

Job Losses and the end of USO

Post by Acca Dacca »

The USO is different country to country

Heres Holland's

Image

5 days
If you tolerate this, then your paid break will be next
aiden01
MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
Posts: 7001
Joined: 27 Feb 2013, 21:43
Gender: Male

Job Losses and the end of USO

Post by aiden01 »

clashcityrocker wrote:The Isle of Man is a strange entity.
It isn't part of the UK and it isn't part of the EU.
The people who live there drink. 10 000 alcoholics out of a population of 84 000.
Even Cambuslang would be hard pushed to match that.
:Very Happy
postslippete
Posts: 4015
Joined: 14 Jul 2014, 16:27
Gender: Male

Job Losses and the end of USO

Post by postslippete »

Our office has been relying on staff regularly working their day off, not necessarily because of staff sickness or anything, I think its already been planning the decline for a long time so if we move to a 5 day USO all that would mean is letting a few senior guys leave on redundancy terms. If they can't, then they will probably get rid of the staff who haven't worked there the full year yet or haven't got permanent contracts.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.