Transfer of sipp to Zurich Flexiplann

11aaa222 · Post by **11aaa222** » 15 Jun 2019, 18:44

Hi all, presumably this is a question for robertT he seems to be the pensoin expert.

I have saved some monies into a private sipp with hargreaves lansdown, and unfortunately have saved into some Neil Woodford funds, this fund manager has destroyed the value of my sipp to be honest and I am absoluteley disgusted with Hargreaves Lansdowns endoremsnt of him and his products and investments as I am down across the board in the holdings he has managed. I of course regret ever investing in his funds. I regularly saved over the years and I am seeing a sea of red, although I have still managed to save a substantial amount, it should have been far bigger.

I have sold out of 2 of Woodfords funds and the other holding is currently suspeneded and I am not able to trade in it until woodford lifts the trading ban, but I have made up my mind I am going to swallow the loss and cash in the holdings and close my H-L trading account.

My question is am I amble to tranfer the money built up in this sipp to the Zurich flexiplan? as i have paid into some AVC's over the years I currently have the flexiplan and think my pension investments would be easy to manage under one umbrella with Zurich? If so what investement product do you think looks quite attractive in Zurichs catologue of products.

I have made a bad choice in investing with Woodford I just hope I can make up some of my losses.

Many thanks in advance RobertT

Post by **RobertT** » 15 Jun 2019, 19:28

I too have invested in the currently suspended Neil Woodford Equity Income fund, so I'm not best pleased either. Although mines in a S&S ISA and I put most of my money in when the fund was first started and didn't really put in a huge amount compared to my total investment balance, so perhaps my losses aren't quite as bad as some?
It's currently down just under 12%!

The simple answer to your question is no you can't directly transfer your SIPP money into your Flexiplan account.
And as part of the recent and ongoing migration to the new Zurich platform/website, the only way to pay into your Flexiplan from now on is via payroll – one off payments by cheque are no longer accepted. That's mentioned in the changes to AVC's booklet we got a while back.

So in practice the only way to put your SIPP cash into your Flexiplan is indirectly by increasing your weekly contributions via payroll. Bearing in mind you can only access your SIPP if you're over 55.

The only other option would be to use other funds with HL or to transfer to another pension provider.

11aaa222 · Post by **11aaa222** » 15 Jun 2019, 20:36

RobertT wrote: So in practice the only way to put your SIPP cash into your Flexiplan is indirectly by increasing your weekly contributions via payroll. Bearing in mind you can only access your SIPP if you're over 55.

sorry I don't understand, I no loner am paying into my sipp due to the poor performance, so this is a non-issue how and what can I do with the current money stuck in my sipp, any suggestions on where I can transfer the current money stuck in limbo to?

Post by **RobertT** » 16 Jun 2019, 07:10

I probably didn't put my reply as well as I could have done( I was going out and in a hurry)!

Here are/were your options:

1. Keep your your money invested with Woodford and hope the returns improve.
2. Keep your money in your HL SIPP and change your investment choices – there's lots to choose from.
3. Sell your holdings and transfer your SIPP cash to another pension provider and choose new investments with them, although they may be fairly similar to HL, depending on which provider you go with.
4. If you're over 55 you can cash in your SIPP, put the money in your bank account and increase your Flexiplan contributions until you've used it up. The big downside as I'm sure you know, being only the first 25% would be tax free.

There is no option to transfer your SIPP direct to your AVC's!

Personally I wouldn't discount leaving your Woodford Equity Income fund money where it is, even after the suspension is lifted. That's what I'm planning on doing, although to be fair I didn't put a huge amount in!

Just because you've 'lost' money in the shorter term doesn't mean it won't recover. I put a lump sum into a fund in my S&S ISA, also with HL, that absolutely tanked after the last market crash and stayed down around 40% for quite a few years afterwards despite a market recovery. Then the investment strategy of the fund was changed and it's since done very nicely thankyou, rising about 55% from it's low point. I just wish I'd put more money in when it was at rock bottom!!!

Obviously it's up to you, but if you're adamant you want to transfer completely out of HL, then I can only suggest you put in a lot of online research and find a pension provider that you're happy with. But there are quite a lot out there!

Personally I have a pension with Standard Life which has done well over the years, and as I already stated I also have a S&S ISA with HL which has also made good gains. But in practice it's the investments that matter more than the provider.

heapsy · Post by **heapsy** » 16 Jun 2019, 07:25

When Woodford launched his fun, I also invested. After 3 years, I moved my money to something else. I made a grand total of £34. The real issue is time. Everyone has their retirement plan and needs the money at their chosen date. If your funds are down by huge amounts then it might be worth waiting to see if they recover. IF you have the time.

Post by **westy23** » 16 Jun 2019, 07:41

Morning all.
Fortunately I moved my money from the Woodford fund to a direct investment with Fundsmith about 3 years ago and have done very nicely.
Might be worth considering as there are no broker charges or fees for buying or selling and just the annual charge of 1.05% for direct holdings.
Also they offer regular monthly or quarterly withdrawals direct into your bank account and charge absolutely zero for this as long as the balance doesn’t drop below £1000.
That is something I wii definitely consider when I fully retire.
And the performance of the fund has been outstanding.
Wether it continues to do as well going forward ????

Post by **RobertT** » 16 Jun 2019, 08:40

I think every investor has stories of how some funds/shares have performed either very well or very badly and I have a few myself.
In practice you have to look at things as a whole and accept you're always going to win on some and lose on others.
But a paper loss only becomes an actual loss when you sell!

As far as providers are concerned, in my opinion it's a bit of a minefield!
What you might gain by having low dealing costs with one, you might lose with a higher commission charge or monthly fees with another, for example.
So do your homework and choose a provider that does what you want at a cost you're happy with.

11aaa222 · Post by **11aaa222** » 16 Jun 2019, 11:22

RobertT wrote: Personally I have a pension with Standard Life which has done well over the years, and as I already stated I also have a S&S ISA with HL which has also made good gains. But in practice it's the investments that matter more than the provider.

Yes your right RobertT it is the investments that matter more than the provider, however I am just shocked at HL's endorsement of him as well as HL's conduct in this matter, the more and more I look into it the more concerned I am with HL's behaviors. Please read some very interesting and thought provoking articles online that I have come across. Also I have come to realize HL charges not very competitive.

In hindsight I would have been a lot more better off putting my money into the flexiplan avc instead.

Thanks for your suggestion on standard life I shall look into this as well as another suggestion about fundsmith on here.

I am gutted been a very bad couple of months for my investments!!! I have lost a total of a four figure sum on my sipp investments as well as lost thousands of ponds on my Royal Mail shares.

Gutted!!!!!

Post by **RobertT** » 16 Jun 2019, 13:29

I would agree that HL's charges are one of the highest and I have thought about transferring elsewhere, but I've been with them for quite a long time, well before some of the others even existed, and to be honest the whole transferring process scares me a bit. Maybe I should look at it again?

Personally I think HL have a foot in both camps with regard to Woodford. On one hand they endorsed him and encouraged their clients to invest, while at the same time they've withdrawn a lot of money from his funds which were held in their own in house investment vehicles, and so exasperating the current problems. But it doesn't look good for him once he lifts the suspension as many more will just want to withdraw their money asap, unless he can turn things around?

The best time to invest is usually when the markets are low and you may have seen your investments fall, and personally I also saw a 5 figure drop in my investments in the last crash. I kept the faith and continued investing, which 10 years on has paid dividends.

But when you narrow it down to individual funds or shares, it becomes a lot harder to follow that same regime because you're putting your faith in a much smaller group of companies and people.

I hope everything works out for you.

11aaa222 · Post by **11aaa222** » 16 Jun 2019, 22:03

RobertT,

What a way to spend a Sunday afternoon, I have spent all day Sunday researching what to do with my sipp and the cash balance inside of it (THANKS A LOT NEIL WOODFORD AND HL!!!!).

I have come to the conclusion that transfering my sipp from HL to another is more complicated than it looks and paperwork hassle etc I have deferred this for the time being until at least woodford lifts his fund freeze.

As soon as the freeze is lifted I am tranferring to another platform but for the time being I have decided to invest half my money into 2 of Lindsell Train's funds managed by Nick train. It will give me exposure to both global and uk equties, looking at the long term performance it seems very impressive, I wish I had invested here before!!

It was a very close call between this and Fundsmith as suggested by somone in previous post, the fundsmith had a slightly higher charge. However perefmormace us qually as impressive.

I hope I have made the right call, hopefully recoup some losses and then some! wish me luck guys!!!!

heapsy · Post by **heapsy** » 16 Jun 2019, 23:46

11aaa222 wrote:RobertT,

What a way to spend a Sunday afternoon, I have spent all day Sunday researching what to do with my sipp and the cash balance inside of it (THANKS A LOT NEIL WOODFORD AND HL!!!!).

I have come to the conclusion that transfering my sipp from HL to another is more complicated than it looks and paperwork hassle etc I have deferred this for the time being until at least woodford lifts his fund freeze.

As soon as the freeze is lifted I am tranferring to another platform but for the time being I have decided to invest half my money into 2 of Lindsell Train's funds managed by Nick train. It will give me exposure to both global and uk equties, looking at the long term performance it seems very impressive, I wish I had invested here before!!

It was a very close call between this and Fundsmith as suggested by somone in previous post, the fundsmith had a slightly higher charge. However perefmormace us qually as impressive.

I hope I have made the right call, hopefully recoup some losses and then some! wish me luck guys!!!!

Fundsmith and Lindsell Train have done well for me. In fact, nearly all my funds are up by double digit %. You might want to take a look at Evenlode Income. This is weighted more with a UK bias, but offers some defence by investing in the FTSE100 big guns such as Diageo, Reckitt Benckiser etc. Not super charged like Fundsmith or Lindsell Train, but provides steady performance.

Post by **RobertT** » 17 Jun 2019, 18:48

11aaa222 wrote:RobertT,

What a way to spend a Sunday afternoon, I have spent all day Sunday researching what to do with my sipp and the cash balance inside of it (THANKS A LOT NEIL WOODFORD AND HL!!!!).

I have come to the conclusion that transfering my sipp from HL to another is more complicated than it looks and paperwork hassle etc I have deferred this for the time being until at least woodford lifts his fund freeze.

As soon as the freeze is lifted I am tranferring to another platform but for the time being I have decided to invest half my money into 2 of Lindsell Train's funds managed by Nick train. It will give me exposure to both global and uk equties, looking at the long term performance it seems very impressive, I wish I had invested here before!!

It was a very close call between this and Fundsmith as suggested by somone in previous post, the fundsmith had a slightly higher charge. However perefmormace us qually as impressive.

I hope I have made the right call, hopefully recoup some losses and then some! wish me luck guys!!!!

I'm currently in the process of changing my investments in my personal pension, so know all about the time it takes to find funds you're happy with. As I'm planning on accessing it in around 4 years time, I'm looking at relatively safe funds to preserve my gains over the years and be less open to any big market falls.

I am also planning to alter my S&S ISA investments in the near future, and will take a look at Fundsmith, Lindsell Train and Evenlode.

Thanks for the tips and I wish everyone luck with their plans.

Snurgs · Post by **Snurgs** » 17 Jun 2019, 22:12

I managed to transfer a sipp with H L to my flexiplan last year . Just phoned Zurich and they sent me the forms . Also transferred a doomed Norwich Union one . The rules may have changed now, but it worked ok for me .
Nope sorry . I just remembered i transferred the H L one to Standard Life .But the Norwich Union one was easily done .

Post by **cloherty1976** » 18 Jun 2019, 18:57

Just transferred money on the money4 life account from growth to sharia law fund and was very easy on website. Can I transfer money I have frozen in standard life policy I had before Royal Mail closed it to move to Zurich?

Post by **RobertT** » 19 Jun 2019, 04:25

I don't think you can, but Snurgs says he's done it. So I suggest you get in touch with the PSC for confirmation.