LTB 167/18 - GET OUT THE VOTE

[nelly21]

its a no from me , very poor deal been made to look good from a union that missed the boat at christmas when we had the upper hand

[Schiff]

It will be a massive yes vote with a low turn out. Hence why the union wants more to vote.

If you read anything more into it you believe in fairies

Then I must believe in fairies. This sounds like desperation to me. The lower the turnout the more likely that it will be a no vote.

[Martin Walsh]

Having done over 50 seperate meetings on the agreement in different offices than I can make a judgement on whether it will be a yes vote or not. Additionally I am not aware of a single CWU Branch who is not recommending members to vote yes to the agreement.

I stand corrected Fish , it will be a big yes vote from those who bother to vote and I predict 90% of those who vote will vote yes ! I reckon less than 50% of the Members will vote.

I was part of the last big campaign which defeated the PEC yes recommendation back in 2000 on the Way Forward and we have 5 CWU Divisions against the deal than and what helped was the pay restructuring and ways of working was so unacceptable that it united a large part of the membership to vote no.

Believe me this agreement is not perfect as I think we have sold the PDA actuals to cheaply but what we have stopped and what we have achieved is a fair and balanced agreement which providing the progress which is being achieved with the government on introducing the CDC scheme than it is the right decision to say yes.

However there is no doubt that next years new Delivery Agreement is going to be a challenge and Royal Mail want AHDC and the non use of prep frames.

In terms of bullying , expect a big announcement in the next 72 hours and if the agreement comes in than an independent appointed person in the same way as Lord Sawyer was introduced in the 1990s will visit offices around the uk to speak with employees over their concerns and also see if the full terms of the agreement is being deployed. If anyone expected the company to put in a National Agreement there is wide spread bullying and this is what has been agreed to resolve it and what that would have done to the share price than your simply not being realistic. That is not to say that bullying is not being addressed .

[fishtank]

The lower the turnout the more likely that it will be a no vote.

It doesn't work like that unfortunately.

The pro-agreement group has HQ and all its resources, the PEC, the branches and most local reps all actively campaigning to get their supporters to vote.

The anti-agreement group has nothing and is split into two camps, those who think the union can improve the deal and will actively vote No and those, I suspect the majority who think the agreement is poor but have no faith in the union's ability to improve the situation, those members will either not vote or in fact vote Yes because they fear the consequences of a NO vote.

Apathy always suits the status quo, those with the money, power and influence, that's why they actively encourage it.

[jetblack]

.... providing the progress which is being achieved with the government on introducing the CDC scheme than it is the right decision to say yes.

Was it ever seriously in doubt that the Govt. would ratify/bring in the necessary legislation/regulation for the CDC scheme Dingo ? I would put my house on it. Its being dressed up as if the CDC is so great for the workers that there is a genuine doubt wether a Tory Govt. would endorse it.
Why would they not ? Such a scheme shifts risk away from the Govt.s corporate sponsors onto us the average Jo's. The Tories f***ing love it.
Lets not try to soft soap people into imagining that its some kind of big victory when the Govt accept it - it isn't. Its a foregone conclusion - and the income provision in old age for a generation of RMG employees will just have taken a massive hit.

"The progress which is being achieved.." ?? Thats spin. Its not progress - the bigger picture is one of regression.

[ROSSCO]

Dingo, what is the PDA actuals and what can/will R Mail be doing with them?

[nickbsmooth]

Does an independent body count the Votes? I'm hoping for a NO vote but I think majority will fold.

[General Mannerheim]

In terms of bullying , expect a big announcement in the next 72 hours and if the agreement comes in than an independent appointed person in the same way as Lord Sawyer was introduced in the 1990s will visit offices around the uk to speak with employees over their concerns and also see if the full terms of the agreement is being deployed. If anyone expected the company to put in a National Agreement there is wide spread bullying and this is what has been agreed to resolve it and what that would have done to the share price than your simply not being realistic. That is not to say that bullying is not being addressed .

So I thought that there would be a team of independent people visting loads of offices but in effect it will be the usual cop out of a few offices in various regions(usually offices with no reported or very few bullying incidents and plenty of select posties being asked, usually part time managers/posties about what the office moral is like like the last time.)
So when can we expect to hear which chosen few offices are selected for this `appointed person`.
Same old bullcrap.

[Martin Walsh]

Dingo, what is the PDA actuals and what can/will R Mail be doing with them?

Since last October the PDA’s have had the soft ware inplace to send a ping every 9 seconds showing the latitude and longitude of every PDA the route it goes , the places it stops and the time every PDA finishes.

It is currently being trialled in the Cheshire and Mersey area and subject to agreement will be rolled out to every area.

Quite simply the PDA actual records real time of every delivery , Royal Mail want to offer a new service to customers that they can track the post man or woman whilst on delivery with their parcel within an agreed delivery window.

It is a game changer ! Royal Mail wanted to roll it out from 9th April this will be delayed , however the hour reduction inThe working week in October will be based on the PDA actuals. I have recently attended a full presentation from Anton Hardings Royal Mail Delivery Team to Divisional Reps and Senior Managers the level of detail which a PDA is huge and Royal Mail want to use it for resourcing , revisions and paying for hours actually worked including overtime.

[borders]

Dingo , can you explain this part of your paragraph in more detail please , are you actually saying that every hour and minute will be logged by RM and that will be reflected in your pay slip each week ? the runners will love that ! and how will this be applied in Mail Centres and Distribution etc ?

"the level of detail which a PDA is huge and Royal Mail want to use it for resourcing , revisions and paying for hours actually worked including overtime ".

[fishtank]

It's only my opinion but I think rather than use PDA outputs to accurately record worked hours they'll be used to keep overtime claims "honest". They're not really an accurate enough account of worked hours since they're only applicable to outdoor tasks but they're a good enough information source to stop people claiming two hours extended delivery while going home an hour early.

Of course that's a dilemma for management, in a business with no premium rate overtime what do you use to entice members instead? Invest in more contracted hours? Sounds great in theory but covering sick absence is not something you want to be investing contracted hours in if you want to be efficient.

[SpacePhoenix]

Dingo , can you explain this part of your paragraph in more detail please , are you actually saying that every hour and minute will be logged by RM and that will be reflected in your pay slip each week ? the runners will love that ! and how will this be applied in Mail Centres and Distribution etc ?

"the level of detail which a PDA is huge and Royal Mail want to use it for resourcing , revisions and paying for hours actually worked including overtime ".

The only way that would work in a MC or RDC is if litterally everything had a barcode on. You'd also need probably at least triple the number of PDAs as well

[aiden01]

Dingo , can you explain this part of your paragraph in more detail please , are you actually saying that every hour and minute will be logged by RM and that will be reflected in your pay slip each week ? the runners will love that ! and how will this be applied in Mail Centres and Distribution etc ?

"the level of detail which a PDA is huge and Royal Mail want to use it for resourcing , revisions and paying for hours actually worked including overtime ".

The only way that would work in a MC or RDC is if litterally everything had a barcode on. You'd also need probably at least triple the number of PDAs as well

Tat wont happen barcode or triple pda.

[Martin Walsh]

The PDA actuals are currently being trailed in Chesire and Mersey Royal Mail Director area.

Subject to the joint sign off of the trial than PDA actuals will be rolled out nationally.

Part of the plan is that PDA"s actuals will allow Royal Mail to advertise a new product with a 4 hour window which the PDA gives transparency.

The PDA will allow Royal Mail to understand the number of

journeys used to cover the ground , i.e.

stem mileage, ad-hoc deliveries , and reviewing lapsing effectiveness

Are people getting out late , are people finishing early or late ?

Actual spans versus paid ?

Has the planned route been followed

PDA actuals will give complete visibility outdoors. It is a game changer. In regards to mail centres the automated hours data capture will what they will use to record hours worked indoors following the trial in PRDC and Greenford Mail Centre and two delivery offices.

[Celgar]

The PDA actuals are currently being trailed in Chesire and Mersey Royal Mail Director area.

Subject to the joint sign off of the trial than PDA actuals will be rolled out nationally.

Part of the plan is that PDA"s actuals will allow Royal Mail to advertise a new product with a 4 hour window which the PDA gives transparency.

The PDA will allow Royal Mail to understand the number of

journeys used to cover the ground , i.e.

stem mileage, ad-hoc deliveries , and reviewing lapsing effectiveness

Are people getting out late , are people finishing early or late ?

Actual spans versus paid ?

Has the planned route been followed

PDA actuals will give complete visibility outdoors. It is a game changer. In regards to mail centres the automated hours data capture will what they will use to record hours worked indoors following the trial in PRDC and Greenford Mail Centre and two delivery offices.

We were told about this at last week's WTLL by one of our cover DOMs and were told the four hour window has been given the
go ahead. It was implied that the four hour window would apply to all 'Tracked' products coming through the system. I pointed out that a lot of delivery spans are currently longer than four hours and that my walk often takes six hours just to deliver on busy days. It generally never takes less than five hours to complete the delivery part. I asked the DOM how can RM promise something that cannot be done within a four hour window but my question was sort of dismissed. This idea is going to make RM and posties look bad when promised delivery windows are not achieved.
I think the bit about planned routes was also mentioned. I always follow the walk route as the frame is set out mainly because I find it easier. Most others do the first row of my walk last and in reverse order after doing the second, third, & fourth rows first in order of the frame.
"Actual spans vs paid." I will be very surprised if RM actually start paying for all the work we do. More likely they will start saying some posties are too slow and try and get them to resign.