Pension pdf split from new agreement

Post by **POSTMAN** » 01 Feb 2018, 13:19

Pension split from agreement.pdf

Post by **cloherty1976** » 01 Feb 2018, 14:12

DB extra 1% matched by RM surely a good thing

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 01 Feb 2018, 14:34

There are things I like and think I don't like, I guess I'm in two minds.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 01 Feb 2018, 14:37

On first glance - good agreemant for RMG , good(ish) agreemant for current DC members. Horseshit for current DB members. Only thing guaranteed is a 3/80ths of pensionable pay lump sum. Everything else is just a target ie. nothing binding/guaranteed at all.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 01 Feb 2018, 14:56

I suppose it depends on whether you consider the starting point of negotiations as the current DB scheme or a closed DB scheme.
I don't think begging would have kept the DB scheme open and I doubt existing DC members would have fought to keep it open either. I think this battle was lost when we allowed them to close the DB scheme to new entrants.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 01 Feb 2018, 15:19

Not really sure why the CWU bumf is describing the guaranteed lump sum as a 'guaranteed defined benefit lump sum' either. Its a guaranteed lump sum. To insinuate that this scheme bare any relation whatsoever to a defined benefit pension scheme is, IMO, a little disingenuous. This is a defined contribution scheme with a guaranteed lump sum.
Whats more, does the current DC scheme have the option of taking a lump sum ? I assume that it does. Then how is this (new) scheme any different then ? The current DC scheme member could voluntarily take out a lump sum of 3/80ths of pensionable pay upon retirement - and whats left in their pot is whats left in their pot. How is that situation any different to the new proposed scheme given that there are no guarantees, only 'targets' ?

Hey, I'm targeting going on a date with Juliette Binoche a week next Tuesday.

Don't hold your breath on that one though

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 01 Feb 2018, 15:30

The only real difference between a CDC scheme and a DC scheme is the C. As it's a collective pot there are economies of scale and greater investment potential however it's not called collective without a reason, there's also collective risk but unlike an individual pot the pain is at least shared and less likely to see you throw yourself off a bridge.

mark.cup · Post by **mark.cup** » 01 Feb 2018, 15:36

Will we still be able to pay into our AVC's?

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 01 Feb 2018, 15:42

'Collective' meaning also, of course, that the investment choices are not mine to be made. Sooo - I'm effectively taking all the risk, but I am unable to play an active role in the investment choices by which my retirement income lives or dies. But its all good, cos if I'm f****d, you'll all be f****d as well ?? Its the exact opposite of freedom without responsibility. Its responsibility without freedom, and thats equally as bad.

Sorry FT - I know there are good aspects to the proposed deal, but the pensions proposal is not, at this point in time (and unless I'm made aware of something which I'm not currently aware),cutting the mustard for me. And given that pensions were absolutely central to this dispute ...

Post by **RobertT** » 01 Feb 2018, 15:48

mark.cup wrote:Will we still be able to pay into our AVC's?

Based on the info given, I would say we will probably be able to continue with AVC’s in some form from 1st April 2018 via the transitional DBCB arrangements, because that will be a section of the existing RMPP. Although that’s just my opinion!

What happens when/if the CDC scheme is implemented is anyones guess.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 01 Feb 2018, 15:56

It's not particularly floating my boat either Jet. The scheme itself..... I would need more detail before I made my mind up but it's not even a scheme at the moment, it's a thought, a hope, a fart in the wind if we're not careful.

Ten years down the line and it's still an ambition for an ambition and in the meantime we're still stuck in this Cash Balance scheme scheme.

stevenshm · Post by **stevenshm** » 01 Feb 2018, 16:24

Does anyone know with the pension scheme changing in April
what change that would make to the current ill health retirement with lump sum?

Will it still be the same?

Post by **RobertT** » 01 Feb 2018, 16:30

stevenshm wrote:Does anyone know with the pension scheme changing in April
what change that would make to the current ill health retirement with lump sum?

Will it still be the same?

Look at the file on the first post in this thread, it tells you there. Although not in any particular detail.

stevenshm · Post by **stevenshm** » 01 Feb 2018, 16:38

Thanks Robert
I did see the the bit about Ill health
but as you say it isn't very clear?
Just wondered if anyone knew what it meant?

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 01 Feb 2018, 16:58

fishtank wrote:It's not particularly floating my boat either Jet.

The City doesn't share our concern though fish - RMG up almost 6% on the day.