LTB 547/17 - Royal Mail Group dispute : High Court judgment and National Briefing : & Video

glfp · Post by **glfp** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:16

bulbhead42 wrote:What a mess the CWU have made of this , they had the biggest yes vote you could imagine with 3/4 of the members backing them and they have blown it .There is now way we will be striking before Christmas and once Christmas had gone they will have nothing to bargain with .They have been out classed by management yet again.

CWU have been stitched up by the system.
Felt for Terry Pullinger in the CWU TV (on facebook)- he looked totally gutted and angry !
He really cares.
I may have issues with CWU / some senior postman's attitudes but this stinks to high heaven.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:17

If two parties enter negotiations with an external mediator who has no power to compel either party to abide by their recommendations and one party is obviously only stalling while the other party keeps looking at the clock you have to wonder why this ( expensive ) waste of time is even taking place.

The judge probably thought that this was the pragmatic course when what he should have done was told both sides to stop wasting court time and take it outside into the car park.

Post by **cloherty1976** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:17

k979aaa wrote:
cloherty1976 wrote:
k979aaa wrote:
cloherty1976 wrote:
k979aaa wrote:
cloherty1976 wrote:
k979aaa wrote:How long's a piece of string and don't bank on moya being strong and stable probably have a nervous breakdown halfway through the talks call in sick and bugger off to Canada again!
Will that cause a delay?
Who else will sign it off or give approval is the wizz kid from HSBC going to head the talks you know the guy on the WTLL videos head of propaganda Royal Mail well that worked well 10 million pounds in propaganda and 10.9% voting agreeing with the propaganda. This whole saga reminds me of Adam Crozier about 9 years ago the guy just disappeared no one could find him.
Hasn't he just left itv and on to bigger things
We Royal Mail was big once and he decimated our industry well he done very nice for himself since he left us £27 million nice here https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... steps-down" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It would be nice to see Royal Mail shares grow like that. Wow
What at the expense of our terms and conditions pensions you only have a few hundred shares they have hundreds of thousands shares for the small holders do not benefit them if they work in the business as they cut expenditure to grow the share price they are not growing the business no one is growing anything in this nation for they are but parasites sucking the blood of our labours!

Been investing in the shares recently

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:20

fishtank wrote:If two parties enter negotiations with an external mediator who has no power to compel either party to abide by their recommendations and one party is obviously only stalling while the other party keeps looking at the clock you have to wonder why this ( expensive ) waste of time is even taking place.

The judge probably thought that this was the pragmatic course when what he should have done was told both sides to stop wasting court time and take it outside into the car park.

Or tell Royal Mail to stop pissing in the wind or your pants are going to get wet!

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:21

CWU have been stitched up by the system.

The union signed up to the legal protections.
The union knew about the mediation clause.
The union has its own lawyers.
In what way were they stitched up?

Post by **cloherty1976** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:24

fishtank wrote:
CWU have been stitched up by the system.
The union signed up to the legal protections.
The union knew about the mediation clause.
The union has its own lawyers.
In what way were they stitched up?

Most people thought they would lose in court.
So why did they not withdraw the strike as Royal Mail gave them time?
Was it just to look strong to members?
Would have saved members funds

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:26

The second grounds for the injunction (which was dropped) was that the union hadn't adequately communicated the results of the ballot with members. Had they (RMG) gone with that in the High Court, a pound to a penny, the judge would have granted the injunction on that basis.

If it hadn't been 'mediation' it would have been something else. Thats why the union has been stitched up. The 'Establishment' come together at times like this - that is the stitch up.

The union are doing their best here.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:31

The question is why during more than 12 months of "talks" which were obviously going nowhere didn't the union call for external mediation and if they did and RM refused why didn't we go to the high court to force RM to abide by the mediation clause.

That's a question that needs a proper answer.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:35

fishtank wrote:The question is why during more than 12 months of "talks" which were obviously going nowhere didn't the union call for external mediation and if they did and RM refused why didn't we go to the high court to force RM to abide by the mediation clause.

That's a question that needs a proper answer.

I agree but if the ballot had been two months prior would this not have happened sooner rather than now?

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:37

If it hadn't been 'mediation' it would have been something else. Thats why the union has been stitched up. The 'Establishment' come together at times like this - that is the stitch up.

That's not evidence of a stitch up, that's just guesswork and a little anti-establishment bias on your part. Royal Mail nailed us with a factual clause in a factual agreement that we signed up to and were perfectly aware of. It wasn't a stitch up, it was an own goal.

Post by **cloherty1976** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:38

fishtank wrote:The question is why during more than 12 months of "talks" which were obviously going nowhere didn't the union call for external mediation and if they did and RM refused why didn't we go to the high court to force RM to abide by the mediation clause.

That's a question that needs a proper answer.

Great question and you will never get a true answer

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:45

fishtank wrote:
That's a question that needs a proper answer.

Maybe - but its academic.

The history of industrial relations, its legislation, and its practical application in courts of law show us that, wether the CWU's solicitors/legal advisors should have been ahead of the game re.mediation or not, is, in the grand scheme of things, academic.

Just seems to me that there's finger pointing starting to take place here - and its not at the true culprits, its at the union.

Post by **milly** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:46

jetblack wrote:The second grounds for the injunction (which was dropped) was that the union hadn't adequately communicated the results of the ballot with members. Had they (RMG) gone with that in the High Court, a pound to a penny, the judge would have granted the injunction on that basis.

If it hadn't been 'mediation' it would have been something else. Thats why the union has been stitched up. The 'Establishment' come together at times like this - that is the stitch up.

The union are doing their best here.

Royal Mail had a valid case and won the day,there is no Establishment conspiracy here.
This is only the opening salvo,Royal Mail have lost the confidence of the workforce and the Royal Mail management will not be able to win us round.
I am very confident of gaining some significant concessions from Royal Mail over the coming weeks.
The Ballot result was huge and was a game changer,I thought it would have been closer due apathy but the result restored my faith in our Postmen and Women.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 12 Oct 2017, 20:49

milly wrote:,there is no Establishment conspiracy here.

Agreed Milly. But there is common cause.

LouBarlow · Post by **LouBarlow** » 12 Oct 2017, 21:01

fishtank wrote:
CWU have been stitched up by the system.
The union signed up to the legal protections.
The union knew about the mediation clause.
The union has its own lawyers.
In what way were they stitched up?

Absolutely. I have been out the last two national strikes, but unless action is called before Christmas I am done this time. I'm not losing pay when the union will have zero leverage. Royal Mail know that they can sit it out after then and will win any war of attrition.

Last time round we managed the 'Deal of the Century' or whatever the union deemed it. This whole current shambles is a by-product of that monumental f**k up of an agreement.