understanding gobbledegook

[postmanpleb]

Was handed the Courier newsflash on the latest pension offer today. I have read it many times today & it is still as clear as mud. I almost fill the criteria for the example quoted (50 years old, 30 years service, section C ) I know it is sparse in detail being a newsflash BUT nowhere is there mention about my NR 60 pension. Has this been amalgamated with the new Defined Benefit cash balance proposal??? Better not be, otherwise I am going to have to work to 65 instead of 60 to see any pension and miss out on about £60000 ( 5years of NR60 pension). If this is not the case I can't see how the numbers add up. I congratulate Royal Mail again, for Goebbels type lies & incomprehensible gobbledegook.





Up the Pinks

[RobertT]

The NRA 60(service up to 2010) and the NRA65(service from 2010 to 2018) are still in place. It’s what happens after 1st April 2018 that’s currently under negotiation.

As a section C member, you currently have the choice of taking your whole pension as income; or a lesser pension & a tax free lump sum.

The aim of the Cash Balance scheme is to fund some or all of your lump sum. As most people currently take the maximum 25% lump sum, it means you can potentially have that lump sum without reducing your pension income.

[postmanpleb]

Thanks Robert for your reply. I have read the news flash yet again and the numbers quoted don't seem to add up. Like I said I almost fit the criteria in example quoted, by my calculations and pension booklets previously received,30 years of service so far = £12000 pension per year & £50000 lump sum. According to the newsflash I would get £12300 & £81000 lump sum for 15 years service until `I am 65. Half the years to get same pension & bigger lump sum ?????? !!!!!!







Up the Pinks

[RobertT]

The figures quoted are based on earning £25,000. However most posties earn less and being in section C, you also have the Lower Earnings Deduction taken off your pay before you and the company pay pension contributions, that’s £3,328.

Based on basic gross pay, in practice your pensionable pay will be more like £18k. Therefore the quotes RM have given are totally pointless.

Under the Cash Balance proposal we will no longer be building up any more pension from April 2018, that will just increase with inflation each year. We will just be building up a pot of money to use for the lump sum when we take our pension.

My advice would be to ignore the quotes given by RM, because they don’t mirror reality. Base things on what your pension is likely to be worth as at April 2018.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I think also Royal Mail are using figures to confuse people as they realise that if members are confused and unsure what is happening they are less likely to vote for a strike on pensions.

I may be wrong but one of their claims is that providing the pensions is going to cost more and more, but they have forecasted this based on Government figures of how long people live for after retirement, and also getting a full pension without any Cash Lump reducing it. Yet their blurb claims 98% of people opt for the lump sum. I would have thought statistically in the long run 98% taking a lump sum, instead of their full pension would, in fact, be cheaper.

[nataddick]

It all appears crystal clear to Unite, the managers union, as their press release includes the following statement.

"The Unite negotiating team consider that what is on offer is the best available in the circumstances"

Unless they have had privileged assess to documentation unavailable to the CWU, I find it staggering that they have resorted to a ballot so soon. But then again they do represent managers !

As Robert mentions, the examples I have seen make it impossible to draw any meaningful conclusions about the latest proposal other than an extra 1% of pensionable pay is on the table.

I have said it before on here but why are the CWU not asking First Actuarial, their own pension advisors, to analyse the latest proposal and provide members with a simple, clear and concise guide to what is on offer and what is being lost ? We have had no absolutely no feedback on the previous DB cash balance proposal.

[fly-catchers]

To me it stills looks like a DC scheme. If it was DB based how does it grow each year and does it have any real connection with your wages? All thats changed is somebody scribbled out DC and wrote in DB as "they know how important a DB Pension is to the members!" And using unrealistic wage and age groups to make it sound half decent. Our Manger thinks it great though!!

[max49]

Why have RM based their pension for casts on earnings of £25,000 when, as I understand, our pension deductions will be from our basic pay only? 52 weeks of our basic pay is £21,907.60 which is quite a bit short of the 25k they are quoting, or are we going to get a pay rise? I make it over a 14% increase which I assume will mean the figures they have given for the pension/lump sum are also 14% too much.

[RobertT]

Why have RM based their pension for casts on earnings of £25,000 when, as I understand, our pension deductions will be from our basic pay only? 52 weeks of our basic pay is £21,907.60 which is quite a bit short of the 25k they are quoting, or are we going to get a pay rise? I make it over a 14% increase which I assume will mean the figures they have given for the pension/lump sum are also 14% too much.

Some people do currently have allowances that are pensionable, meaning their wages are higher than basic pay for pension purposes.
While those in Section C have the Lower Earnings Deduction of £3,328 taken off their wages to make their pensionable pay. Meaning if you’re in Section C with no pensionable allowances, your pensionable pay will be in the region of 18K.
Your pensionable pay is shown on your annual statement.

Personally I think they’ve used £25k to mislead us and to try and make us think we’re not going to lose out by as much as we actually are.

[Driver74]

Maybe £25k is an average mgv driver on nights is £28k logistics driver on nights will be more than that