DB Pension Scheme to close in April 2018

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 13 Apr 2017, 17:50

as fish says though, the union need to be careful how they play this. we going to need some top strategy in the coming months. either way. I will back the union at any cost.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 13 Apr 2017, 18:58

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 13 Apr 2017, 19:33

If the members don't join together on this issue, it'll be the end of our terms as we know it, first the pensions go, then paid breaks, then sick benefits, allowances, the lot.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 13 Apr 2017, 20:38

Royal Mail have not formally rejected the CWU scheme. In face they improved their previous DC proposal. The reality is we all knew they were going to announce the closure at some stage of the DB scheme.

The fight was always going to be what replaces it and what the pay and operational strategy was going to be.

Royal Mail have made a calculated decision today to announce the closure to see the union's reaction and the members reaction they want to see if we react.

Well remember no change will happen to post April 2018 and the Wider negoations on sick pay , new starts , MTSF , their delivery strategy , Mail centre , Distribution and RDC is massive and so are their effirency measures.

The CWUs conference starts on the 24th April and their are emergency motions lining up about the pension issue and the Wider negotiations.

In any battle you rush unprepared to the battle and this battle involves much more than pensions it involves whether we accept Royal Mails decision to attack our pay and conditions and change this industry to an operational plan which is later starts , longer deliveries and largely a part time industry.

So keep your chins up there will be a battle but we have to galvanise all the members not just the 88 000 members in the DB scheme. That will come and the union will fight on pensions but the timing is crucial !

LouBarlow · Post by **LouBarlow** » 14 Apr 2017, 07:43

I think the lack of activity in this thread is largely indicative of the support the union are going to get going forward. i.e. next to none. I hope I am wrong, but I think most members are defeated already, after being shat on for years now.

gb93 · Post by **gb93** » 14 Apr 2017, 08:17

Well going off the thoughts of members I have heard I think support against RM pension proposal is really strong & members are well up for the fight.
Seems to be the branches are getting prepared for it too.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 14 Apr 2017, 08:25

Lou how can you take this thread as a indicator of support for the CWU ?

Every time apart from in 2003 when the union membership has been asked to support the CWU we have achieved a yes vote. The last time the CWU members were balloted for strike action was 2013 under the Agenda for Growth the CWU did not need to action strike action than as an agreement was reached but every Branch in the U.K got a yes vote.

Four years on and you can take your pick on what you dislike about Royal Mail's proposals

Pension cuts
No pay rise only a £250 lump sum but dependent all all RRIS , TPM , Reserved rights going , Legacy payments going , no sick pay for first 3 days , full and half sick pay reduced, New starters worst conditions , monthly pay , MTSF terms reduced and the IR framework changing with easy introduction of change and Area Reps removed.

What Royal Mail want to trail

Different amount of duties / walks during summer , winter and Autumn and spring by resourcing by real time data and PDA actuals.

Late starts with NDC not dispatching until 0200.

Not sorting the first wave until 90% of work is available and than not sorting that in a frame.

Staggered starts using the same frame but only sorting 10% sequecncing and manual items in the frame meaning you don't need big frames and your time on the frame will be reduced.

Team working with real walk ownership and covering sick leave , annual leave within those teams with remuneration only based on real time recording and with a viariation of hours during heavier times and less in the summer.

When I have meeting the members in offices and I have met over the last 2 months met members in collections , Mail centre and delivery offices plus 120 local reps there is no doubt that the members will support the CWU. The issue is when that time is ? There is more Negotiations needed to see if Royal Mail are going to accept the union's WINRs pension scheme and remove the other cuts and strings and are up for change on their operational plan.

If not than that is the time to go to war. Remember the new anti trade union laws came in this month so the records have to be right for the CWU to ballot as we have Royal Mail's lawyers crawling all over the data.

So if you allow for the union's conference which starts on April 24th and A chance for Branch's and Divisions to steer the union's policy and a period of further talks and getting the membership details right in offices , Branch's and at CWU HQs than we would be looking at a ballot around the end of July which will take 4 weeks to run and would be live in September assuming the CWU got a yes vote. Ready for Autumn pressure not a bad time for traffic. Let's hope for the best but prepare
for the worst.

LouBarlow · Post by **LouBarlow** » 14 Apr 2017, 08:47

I have been on every picket line since I started working for the company and will always offer my support, but it is just the general feeling I get. I guess it likely varies from office to office, but the 'old guard' are slowly disappearing, and vocal union membership is becoming more scarce in my DO.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 14 Apr 2017, 10:09

just as a point of interest, how long did RM take a ''pension holiday'' for.....I am sure it was for about 10 yrs, (correct me if I am wrong) stating that their was ''too much money'' in the scheme. and they would of been heavily taxed if they didn't stop paying into it. it would seem we the workforce are being made to suffer for their dropping of the ''mother of all clangers''.

Post by **RobertT** » 14 Apr 2017, 10:20

daveyeff wrote:just as a point of interest, how long did RM take a ''pension holiday'' for.....I am sure it was for about 10 yrs, (correct me if I am wrong) stating that their was ''too much money'' in the scheme. and they would of been heavily taxed if they didn't stop paying into it. it would seem we the workforce are being made to suffer for their dropping of the ''mother of all clangers''.

I believe our pension holiday was 13 years.
Surpluses were taxed so many pension schemes had holidays to avoid being taxed, but I would agree that RM's was longer than it should have been.

This gives some info: http://www.rosaltmann.com/whathashappened.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

vmaxv4 · Post by **vmaxv4** » 14 Apr 2017, 12:42

LouBarlow wrote:I have been on every picket line since I started working for the company and will always offer my support, but it is just the general feeling I get. I guess it likely varies from office to office, but the 'old guard' are slowly disappearing, and vocal union membership is becoming more scarce in my DO.

Agree...
I am in a MC with 450+ staff only two members are interested/bothered in pensions & we both contribute on here. As others have said timing is everything.
Lets not loose sight that RM are going to bombard our colleagues with.. An improved offer from the nuclear option we've been given in the illustrations we've received.

TheTrolleyMan · Post by **TheTrolleyMan** » 14 Apr 2017, 14:53

So when Royal Mail announce their sad / we can't afford it anymore speech to the press , why aren't the Cwu tell the press about 13 years of pension holiday , service failures etc , it's about time we fight fire with fire

dazzer6 · Post by **dazzer6** » 14 Apr 2017, 15:01

Hi i am 55 next July and got thirty years service in this week. Does any one know if Royal mail get their way with their pension proposals will it affect my ability to draw some of my final salary 2008 pension out next year. Thank you for any help.

Post by **RobertT** » 14 Apr 2017, 15:45

dazzer6 wrote:Hi i am 55 next July and got thirty years service in this week. Does any one know if Royal mail get their way with their pension proposals will it affect my ability to draw some of my final salary 2008 pension out next year. Thank you for any help.

The RM’s proposals and the CWU’s counter WiNRs proposals only apply to what happens to our pensions from April 2018 onwards. You will still be able to take your NRA60(upto 2010) and your NRA65(2010-2018) anytime after age 55 if you want to. Although taking your pension and continuing to work is not generally considered a good idea, as this CWU video explains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICYgWTAD3aA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **labbloke** » 14 Apr 2017, 16:22

This is so important to myself and I would imagine several others that I am prepared to fight and down tools if necessary