Let the horse trading begin

[stephen500]

So the consultation period is over. Royal Mail have sent us their proposal and the union have responded with theirs. Our Cwu say they want a fair deal for all. But how is that to be achieved? Well personally it does not sound too good. The background music is not very soothing. I have written to Terry Pullinger re My reserved rights as an ex PHG and union member of nearly 40 years. The reply I received suggests to me, that rather than fight for my legal rights, that my union is willing to throw my protections in to the collective bargaining melting pot. Next on to the CWU proposal it'self. Our CWU suggest that if it has it's way, we will be investing in more riskier schemes than at present. Yes currently our trustees are very cautious in what they allow investments in and perhaps are too cautious. But go too far the other way and the risk may be too much. It also suggests raising our retirement pension ages to the state retirement age, which is due to rise in line with average life expectancy. Now that may be alright for a solicitor in Surrey. But for a postman/woman in Glasgow that won't fill them with joy. Many don't make retirement now! They also suggest revaluing each year and depends on how the scheme is doing, deciding that year, whether to up rate it. Even this may not be good enough. The CWU scheme still comes in £100 m short. It appears that some in our union are proposing no pay rise to make up that short fall. Now that may be alright for year one, but what about year two, three and so on. We can't go without a pay rise every year. My bills are just about to go up. Council tax, water rates, rents, etc continue to rise. We have to live today. If you listen to videos about pensions, it is not the schemes that are in trouble, it is the legislation controlling them. It is too draconian and should be relaxed slightly to not have to have a review every three years. To end, my CWU should not be using my legal rights set out in the way forward 2000 as a bargaining chip. It is supposed to be about improving pensions for all, not off the back of existing members. It should also take the view point that postman do a physical job and cannot be expected to retire at 67, 70, 75.

[westy23]

I also have ex-phg reserved rights and this is my 40th year of paying union subs.
If my reserved rights are indeed sacrificed on the altar of collective bargaining then I will immediately cancel my union membership as we were promised these payments for perpuity.
And I expect and PAY for my union to protect my pay as promised in the Mtsf agreement.
Sit up and take notice now all those at union head office as you could possibly be losing a lot of members very soon.

[stephen500]

I also have ex-phg reserved rights and this is my 40th year of paying union subs.
If my reserved rights are indeed sacrificed on the altar of collective bargaining then I will immediately cancel my union membership as we were promised these payments for perpuity.
And I expect and PAY for my union to protect my pay as promised in the Mtsf agreement.
Sit up and take notice now all those at union head office as you could possibly be losing a lot of members very soon.

It's a shame but there are not many ex Phg's left. Let's hope our union fights for these rights? Just not too hope full. See my thread on reserved rights and the replies I have had, especially on page 2 of that thread.

[TheTrolleyMan]

The union has been ineffective for a long time now and has agreed to some crazy things . Ie losing double time overtime , d2d payment etc

[hans solo]

f***ing list of cwu failures is endless

[Phantom]

I could not be on delivery until 67 - it would be like torture.

Looks like theres gonna be a lot 40-50 year old ex-postal workers on the dole in 10-20 years time.

[heapsy]

So the consultation period is over. Royal Mail have sent us their proposal and the union have responded with theirs. Our Cwu say they want a fair deal for all. But how is that to be achieved? Well personally it does not sound too good. The background music is not very soothing. I have written to Terry Pullinger re My reserved rights as an ex PHG and union member of nearly 40 years. The reply I received suggests to me, that rather than fight for my legal rights, that my union is willing to throw my protections in to the collective bargaining melting pot. Next on to the CWU proposal it'self. Our CWU suggest that if it has it's way, we will be investing in more riskier schemes than at present. Yes currently our trustees are very cautious in what they allow investments in and perhaps are too cautious. But go too far the other way and the risk may be too much. It also suggests raising our retirement pension ages to the state retirement age, which is due to rise in line with average life expectancy. Now that may be alright for a solicitor in Surrey. But for a postman/woman in Glasgow that won't fill them with joy. Many don't make retirement now! They also suggest revaluing each year and depends on how the scheme is doing, deciding that year, whether to up rate it. Even this may not be good enough. The CWU scheme still comes in £100 m short. It appears that some in our union are proposing no pay rise to make up that short fall. Now that may be alright for year one, but what about year two, three and so on. We can't go without a pay rise every year. My bills are just about to go up. Council tax, water rates, rents, etc continue to rise. We have to live today. If you listen to videos about pensions, it is not the schemes that are in trouble, it is the legislation controlling them. It is too draconian and should be relaxed slightly to not have to have a review every three years. To end, my CWU should not be using my legal rights set out in the way forward 2000 as a bargaining chip. It is supposed to be about improving pensions for all, not off the back of existing members. It should also take the view point that postman do a physical job and cannot be expected to retire at 67, 70, 75.

A very clear and, in my opinion, accurate post Stephen. No chance for delivery staff of working too long. Investing in low risk, but relatively low return funds has been a disaster. Gains made from risky investments should be moved to lower risk funds, taking, and locking in the gains. Cannot understand how, or why this has not happened.

[jetblack]

. Our CWU suggest that if it has it's way, we will be investing in more riskier schemes than at present.

By "riskier" I take it you mean the trustees having discretion granted them to broaden their investments in the stock market. Riskier than bonds paying 0.2% I'll grant you - but not exactly taking a punt on the 3.30 at Redcar is it ?
Whilst there is of course short term fluctuations and dips it is also true that a £1000 investment in the FTSE All-share, yielding 3% per annum, with capital growth of 5.9% would turn £1,000 into £8,200 over a period of 30 years. And that is basically just tracking the index with no active management (which should bring far greater returns).

Over a period of 116 years (ie. the very long term) equities have returned 5.0% whereas Government bonds (you know, those of little risk where a very large chunk of our money is currently invested) have returned 1.3% over the same period - and thses are real returns (after inflation).





Re. PHG allowance. This is regretable. I still receive a Driving Allowance, which also may be up for the chop. But TBH the loss of my driving allowance would be peanuts compared to my loss in retirement due to the RM proposed replacement scheme. My driving allowance is, therefore, a price I am prepared to pay. Easily.

[Glenno]

. Our CWU suggest that if it has it's way, we will be investing in more riskier schemes than at present.

By "riskier" I take it you mean the trustees having discretion granted them to broaden their investments in the stock market. Riskier than bonds paying 0.2% I'll grant you - but not exactly taking a punt on the 3.30 at Redcar is it ?
Whilst there is of course short term fluctuations and dips it is also true that a £1000 investment in the FTSE All-share, yielding 3% per annum, with capital growth of 5.9% would turn £1,000 into £8,200 over a period of 30 years. And that is basically just tracking the index with no active management (which should bring far greater returns).

Over a period of 116 years (ie. the very long term) equities have returned 5.0% whereas Government bonds (you know, those of little risk where a very large chunk of our money is currently invested) have returned 1.3% over the same period - and thses are real returns (after inflation).

Total common sense JB, I applaud your approach





Re. PHG allowance. This is regretable. I still receive a Driving Allowance, which also may be up for the chop. But TBH the loss of my driving allowance would be peanuts compared to my loss in retirement due to the RM proposed replacement scheme. My driving allowance is, therefore, a price I am prepared to pay. Easily.

[k979aaa]

Whist I agree with almost all who have commentated before my post and in which lots of valid solutions were aired and in the end WE have to trust an employer who said the last fix would be the last concession made of us! Now yet again they come for more how much more who knows what their master plan is but it will be in the favour of a company who paid a dividend to more than 88% of non Royal Mail employees IE the stock market and those share holders demand a return! While we paid last time with our pensions which the CONDEM government took £26 Billion for the liability's from our pension scheme and now find they the company cannot afford it after it was sold on! Does this not sound like the BHS sell out by Sir Phillip Green but instead of a Knight of the realm it was our country which stole our pensions for ditching the liability's of the company so it could be sold! Even if we accepted this proposal would this be the last concession I doubt it they will come for more take a look at history those who appeased lost and those who LIED went ahead and done what they wanted and went for even more! Sometimes we must all fight EVIL AND WE MUST MAKE A STAND AGAINST EVIL.

[Bernardson]

Stephen and Westy. As you have presumably paid 40 years into the pension wouldn't it be better for you if you just cut and run? If you left voluntary would your current pension arrangements be secured?
I'm certainly looking at my future in RM although I have done 30 years and am mid fifties and not quite old enough for my state pension yet!

[stephen500]

Stephen and Westy. As you have presumably paid 40 years into the pension wouldn't it be better for you if you just cut and run? If you left voluntary would your current pension arrangements be secured?
I'm certainly looking at my future in RM although I have done 30 years and am mid fifties and not quite old enough for my state pension yet!

If my current pension looks in any real danger in 2018, I will take both before the changes come in. I hopefully can move faster than the CWU and Royal Mail can make changes. However, whatever, I am leaving at 60. I joined at 16. Many of my joints hurt and I am in better health than many, but I doubt I would last to 67. Time to get out. As I have worked for years in a MC on nights, I will get a good pension. (well fingers crossed I will). I wish every one left all the best. But I don't intend to leave and fall over in a couple of years. I know a few who have left at 60 and are very happy.

[k979aaa]

Stephen and Westy. As you have presumably paid 40 years into the pension wouldn't it be better for you if you just cut and run? If you left voluntary would your current pension arrangements be secured?
I'm certainly looking at my future in RM although I have done 30 years and am mid fifties and not quite old enough for my state pension yet!

Why should we accept this work colleges being forced out of a job in the name of profit and shortsightedness by management.

[Bernardson]

Why should we accept this work colleges being forced out of a job in the name of profit and shortsightedness by management.

I agree with your sentiment entirely but also looking at it from a pragmatic view.
Things are changing faster in our industry than they have ever done. A long Industrial dispute could leave us still with a settlement which we may have to compromise with less pension benefits than at present. Unfortunately a lot of our colleagues don't understand the issues and I'm sure there are many out there who are tempted by the £750 without ever considering what their future holds.

[Blackburn4511]

when is this going to be resolved? seems like deadline after deadline keeps passing. when would a vote for industrial action come?