Personal illustration

[k979aaa]

39 years service at 1st April 2018
NRA 60 loss of £347
NRA 65 loss of £1633
Lump Sum No change.
Contributions under proposal Minus £1.61 (Accounts for losing pensionable early shift allowance)

I'd take it at 60 if I was in your position as at least you have what you have worked for. It seems to me it is only going to get worse and the longer you have left the reality is it's down hill. It's a shame but pensions look a thing of the past and I think we will have to look at new way of saving for our futures.

Probably becoming a CEO is your best prospect other than that you could sell your granny and mother and sister and five brothers and you may well just be OK for losing your pension and gaining a fund which will be pillaged by the few for themselves!

[RobertT]

Why is the current contribution going up on our side by £4.14?

I assume you’re in Section C? In which case the current LED deduction of £3,328 that is currently reducing our basic pensionable pay is being scrapped. Therefore more of our basic pay is pensionable. It’s covered in the Q&A’s in your booklet or on the thread here: http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 27&t=77960" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lancashire]

My booklet came today and my illustration shows a drop from 17,144 to 8,020 when retiring at 65

[mr hil.]

I will be three and a half grand worse off per year and have to pay three and a half grand extra to get less back!!!!!

So if I live to 85 years old that will be at least £70,000 pound Royal Mail would have relieved me of if this goes through. Also the most disturbing part for me is the fact that the DB is guaranteed but the new DC could end up a lot less if the pension fund performs badly by being poorly invested.

We do trust them to invest it safely for us don't we ??

Remember investments can go down as well as sink into a black hole never to be seen again

[k979aaa]

I will be three and a half grand worse off per year and have to pay three and a half grand extra to get less back!!!!!

So if I live to 85 years old that will be at least £70,000 pound Royal Mail would have relieved me of if this goes through. Also the most disturbing part for me is the fact that the DB is guaranteed but the new DC could end up a lot less if the pension fund performs badly by being poorly invested.

We do trust them to invest it safely for us don't we ??

Remember investments can go down as well as sink into a black hole never to be seen again

I have the very same concern's as you and everyone else on this as well.

[Spedley]

Ok, just a few questions.

Firstly I see no mention in this booklet of the "less charges" which has been at the end of every sentence so far. Do we know who levies these charges, what they are for, what they apply to and how much they will be?

Secondly, I've seen no reference to moving into a private pension scheme. Do RM make a contributions to that or do they only pay the 10% into their pension? Not something worth doing yet but an option that needs to be considered.

Thirdly, it seems that the worst affected will be those who have at least 9 years service and several decades left. I believe these 'old timers' are just being moved onto the same pension that all new starters already get (or slightly better), does this mean there is a big division where many peoples' illustration could have improved (i.e. everyone who started in the last 9 years). How is that likely to sway the vote?

[RobertT]

Ok, just a few questions.

Firstly I see no mention in this booklet of the "less charges" which has been at the end of every sentence so far. Do we know who levies these charges, what they are for, what they apply to and how much they will be?

The charges are levied by those administering the DC scheme. Zurich are currently responsible for both AVC's and the RMDCP. They take a percentage of the value each year. For current AVC's it's only around 0.35% I think, but I'm not too sure about the RMDCP without looking into it.

Secondly, I've seen no reference to moving into a private pension scheme. Do RM make a contributions to that or do they only pay the 10% into their pension? Not something worth doing yet but an option that needs to be considered.

It's either join the new DC scheme and take the RM contributions or set up your own private pension and fund it yourself.

Thirdly, it seems that the worst affected will be those who have at least 9 years service and several decades left. I believe these 'old timers' are just being moved onto the same pension that all new starters already get (or slightly better), does this mean there is a big division where many peoples' illustration could have improved (i.e. everyone who started in the last 9 years). How is that likely to sway the vote?

I believe the unions aim is to also increase RMs contributions into the current RMDCP(new entrants after 2008), but if they fail to do that there will be many newer recruits who simply won't want to strike over something that doesn't affect them.

[BeamishStout]

It does say in the notes(no.11): No allowance has been made…..for the option to exchange pension for cash at retirement.

Thanks - amazing how the important minutia are buried almost out of sight.

[vmaxv4]

14. How would pensionable pay be calculated if the proposal is implemented?

Currently, pensionable pay is made up of basic pay plus, in some cases, pensionable allowances and pensionable bonuses. Section C members – who make up the majority of Plan members – then have £3,328 deducted (the Lower Earnings Deduction) every year. Under our Defined Contribution proposal the Lower Earnings Deduction would not be made when calculating pensionable pay. However, allowances and bonuses would not count towards Defined Contribution pensionable pay under our proposal.

Overall, we expect the majority of members would have higher pensionable pay under our DC proposal.

If the posts who are in section C on this subject are anything to go by..
How can the last paragraph be correct? Or is just another misdirection by the trustees??

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Its semantics they are trying to confuse you.

What they say but not in a clear way is: After the changes more of your pay will be pensionable, so the amount you pay into the Pension will go up, but the amount of take home pay will go down.

Its the diabolical Triangle


Pay more in

get less out -------------take home less

[BeamishStout]

Just spotted something in the assumptions (No 11) No allowance is made for the pension supplement that would be payable between NRA and State Pension age. Looking at my last 'Your Pension in a Nutshell' illustration from September 2016 you will get whatever the pension supplement is only when you cease working for RM until state pension age. I am actually surprised RM did not include these supplements in the illustration sent out to us. What I need to know is 'What will I get if I retire at 60?', 'What will I get if I retire at a later date (taking NRA 60 benefits if still working for RM)', 'What will I get when I get to state pension age?'.

Re these pension supplements another question. Should I take NRA 60 pension but remain working for RM for perhaps a year or two, then for these intervening years I'd be drawing just the plain NRA60 pension in addition to normal pay. But if I retired at say 62 would the NRA60 pension supplement now kick in until I draw my state pension?

[stephen500]

It appears according to the pension consultation and pensions HQ helpline that the lump sum figure shown for Section B members is for the min lump sum and we will still have the option of a max lump sum.

[RobertT]

Just spotted something in the assumptions (No 11) No allowance is made for the pension supplement that would be payable between NRA and State Pension age. Looking at my last 'Your Pension in a Nutshell' illustration from September 2016 you will get whatever the pension supplement is only when you cease working for RM until state pension age. I am actually surprised RM did not include these supplements in the illustration sent out to us. What I need to know is 'What will I get if I retire at 60?', 'What will I get if I retire at a later date (taking NRA 60 benefits if still working for RM)', 'What will I get when I get to state pension age?'.

Re these pension supplements another question. Should I take NRA 60 pension but remain working for RM for perhaps a year or two, then for these intervening years I'd be drawing just the plain NRA60 pension in addition to normal pay. But if I retired at say 62 would the NRA60 pension supplement now kick in until I draw my state pension?

Taken from the ‘guide to your pension benefits’ available here: http://www.royalmailpensionplan.co.uk/s ... an/library" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your pension supplement

If your Normal Retiring Age in relation to benefits being taken is before your State Pension age, and you choose to take your NRA 60 or NRA 65 pension and leave the Company before State Pension age, you will also receive a pension supplement that is payable until you reach State Pension age. You can find out more on page 27 and the PSC can answer any further questions you may have. Their details are given on page 28.

Please note: If you remain in Company employment or if you are re-employed, then the pension supplement is not payable.

It is unclear from that whether you will get the supplement from 62 until SPA, if you’ve already taken your main pension at 60 and continued working until 62. Although I would say it probably would be payable. A word with the Chesterfield guys might be in order!

[BeamishStout]

It is unclear from that whether you will get the supplement from 62 until SPA, if you’ve already taken your main pension at 60 and continued working until 62. Although I would say it probably would be payable. A word with the Chesterfield guys might be in order!

That will be on the cards when I'm off in just over a week.

[BeamishStout]

Just spotted something in the assumptions (No 11) No allowance is made for the pension supplement that would be payable between NRA and State Pension age. Looking at my last 'Your Pension in a Nutshell' illustration from September 2016 you will get whatever the pension supplement is only when you cease working for RM until state pension age. I am actually surprised RM did not include these supplements in the illustration sent out to us. What I need to know is 'What will I get if I retire at 60?', 'What will I get if I retire at a later date (taking NRA 60 benefits if still working for RM)', 'What will I get when I get to state pension age?'.

Re these pension supplements another question. Should I take NRA 60 pension but remain working for RM for perhaps a year or two, then for these intervening years I'd be drawing just the plain NRA60 pension in addition to normal pay. But if I retired at say 62 would the NRA60 pension supplement now kick in until I draw my state pension?

Taken from the ‘guide to your pension benefits’ available here: http://www.royalmailpensionplan.co.uk/s ... an/library" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your pension supplement

If your Normal Retiring Age in relation to benefits being taken is before your State Pension age, and you choose to take your NRA 60 or NRA 65 pension and leave the Company before State Pension age, you will also receive a pension supplement that is payable until you reach State Pension age. You can find out more on page 27 and the PSC can answer any further questions you may have. Their details are given on page 28.

Please note: If you remain in Company employment or if you are re-employed, then the pension supplement is not payable.

It is unclear from that whether you will get the supplement from 62 until SPA, if you’ve already taken your main pension at 60 and continued working until 62. Although I would say it probably would be payable. A word with the Chesterfield guys might be in order!

Just spoke with Chesterfield today and they confirmed that the pension supplement would kick in for NRA 60 pension at 62 if I was still working for RM until 62 and I had taken NRA 60 pension at 60. They also confirmed that the NRA 65 pension supplement would reduce by approx 5% pa for each year if retiring earlier than 65 (in line with the reduction in NRA65 pension)