Now there's an idea....foxyjarvis wrote:RobertT
Kudos for your knowledge and patience, holding so many posties hands here. Micky Clarke has made a career out of blagging it on Wake Up To Money on 5live and Working Lunch. The two of you should do a job swap.
how come we only get taxed on the first value.?RobertT wrote:The share price when the first allocation was handed out was £4.89, so if the price is higher than that when you sell them, you still base the tax and NI reduction on £4.89.
The current price(14/8/16) is £5.16 so although your 395 shares are worth £2,038, you only pay tax on £1,931 which equates to £618. You will therefore get £1,420 in your pocket. Minus I think another £20 dealing costs.
The answer to that is in the first post in this thread!daveyeff wrote:how come we only get taxed on the first value.?RobertT wrote:The share price when the first allocation was handed out was £4.89, so if the price is higher than that when you sell them, you still base the tax and NI reduction on £4.89.
The current price(14/8/16) is £5.16 so although your 395 shares are worth £2,038, you only pay tax on £1,931 which equates to £618. You will therefore get £1,420 in your pocket. Minus I think another £20 dealing costs.
Yes!Delbhoy wrote:Do we pay n.i. When selling shares ????
Forgive my butting in, but there IS a way to get the full value of your free shares,without waiting 2 more years until 2018. It involves a bit of planning, though.meercat wrote:is there a way to avoid the tax implications of selling these shares early?
As has already been well documented on these forums, if you go as a 'good leaver' with applies to VR/EVR/IHR, you will be given the chance to either keep or sell your shares. You will not pay any tax or NI.k979aaa wrote:If you go because of IHR you get the full amount of share's but what would be the tax implications of this or could you just wait to sell them in the next finical year so you don't pay the tax assuming you don't exceed your tax threshold's?
wandle wrote:Forgive my butting in, but there IS a way to get the full value of your free shares,without waiting 2 more years until 2018. It involves a bit of planning, though.meercat wrote:is there a way to avoid the tax implications of selling these shares early?
Say the share price is 520p on the first day you can sell (but you would normally pay tax on any sale you make that day). That gives you in theory, shares worth
613 x 520p = £3187.60
But as RobertT points out, if you sell, you would lose over £929 in Tax and National Insurance deductions
How about this strategy? Take out a 5-year loan from your bank, for the full (untaxed) value of the shares, rounded up slightly, to £3200. Use about two thirds of the sum borrowed to spend on the things you would have used your proceeds of selling the shares for. Keep £929 in a separate account, to make the loan repayments with.
(With approx £160 interest added, these would equate to monthly repayments of £56). Any dividends you receive on the 613 shares you didn't sell, and those you can't sell yet, add these to the account you're making the loan repayments from. The dividends on all 935* shares over the next two years should be at least £420.75 (see notes below)
When we get to October 2018, if you've followed my advice, your loan repayment account will have had £929 + £420.75 paid in [£1349.75] and paid out 24 months worth of £56 [-£1344], leaving a small credit balance of £5.75
Your outstanding loan amount, at that point, would be approx £2016.00
If the Royal Mail share price is, by then, still around the 520p/share level, THEN you sell 613 x 520p to receive £3167.60 (allowing for £20 selling fee) AND DON'T PAY ANY TAX OR NI.
Repay the remainder of the loan, and you've got £1151.60 left over, to spend as you like !
If the share price is LESS than 520p, then obviously, you'll have a bit less left over after repaying the loan. But what if the share price has risen to say, 600p by October 2018? You'll have even more money left over after repaying the loan ...
The share price would have to have dropped catastrophically, to about 332p, for the 613 shares to not be sufficient to pay off the outstanding loan. Which is not going to happen. Because if it got even close to that level, surely a rival would mount a takeover bid, to buy the company on the cheap ?
*935 is based on the current holdings of 832 shares for full-time employees, which is set to be boosted by another 103 shares or more when the SIP 2016 allocation of free shares is made shortly.
Total dividends over the next two years, based on 22.1p being paid out for 2015/16, should be at least 45p/share
Given that the company will be worth anything with the idiots we have in charge now that is one huge gamble.Theghost wrote:wandle wrote:Forgive my butting in, but there IS a way to get the full value of your free shares,without waiting 2 more years until 2018. It involves a bit of planning, though.meercat wrote:is there a way to avoid the tax implications of selling these shares early?
Say the share price is 520p on the first day you can sell (but you would normally pay tax on any sale you make that day). That gives you in theory, shares worth
613 x 520p = £3187.60
But as RobertT points out, if you sell, you would lose over £929 in Tax and National Insurance deductions
How about this strategy? Take out a 5-year loan from your bank, for the full (untaxed) value of the shares, rounded up slightly, to £3200. Use about two thirds of the sum borrowed to spend on the things you would have used your proceeds of selling the shares for. Keep £929 in a separate account, to make the loan repayments with.
(With approx £160 interest added, these would equate to monthly repayments of £56). Any dividends you receive on the 613 shares you didn't sell, and those you can't sell yet, add these to the account you're making the loan repayments from. The dividends on all 935* shares over the next two years should be at least £420.75 (see notes below)
When we get to October 2018, if you've followed my advice, your loan repayment account will have had £929 + £420.75 paid in [£1349.75] and paid out 24 months worth of £56 [-£1344], leaving a small credit balance of £5.75
Your outstanding loan amount, at that point, would be approx £2016.00
If the Royal Mail share price is, by then, still around the 520p/share level, THEN you sell 613 x 520p to receive £3167.60 (allowing for £20 selling fee) AND DON'T PAY ANY TAX OR NI.
Repay the remainder of the loan, and you've got £1151.60 left over, to spend as you like !
If the share price is LESS than 520p, then obviously, you'll have a bit less left over after repaying the loan. But what if the share price has risen to say, 600p by October 2018? You'll have even more money left over after repaying the loan ...
The share price would have to have dropped catastrophically, to about 332p, for the 613 shares to not be sufficient to pay off the outstanding loan. Which is not going to happen. Because if it got even close to that level, surely a rival would mount a takeover bid, to buy the company on the cheap ?
*935 is based on the current holdings of 832 shares for full-time employees, which is set to be boosted by another 103 shares or more when the SIP 2016 allocation of free shares is made shortly.
Total dividends over the next two years, based on 22.1p being paid out for 2015/16, should be at least 45p/share
Definitley in the wrong job,Well worked out sir.
The business will be worth more and more every year for a good while.k979aaa wrote:Given that the company will be worth anything with the idiots we have in charge now that is one huge gamble.Theghost wrote:wandle wrote:Forgive my butting in, but there IS a way to get the full value of your free shares,without waiting 2 more years until 2018. It involves a bit of planning, though.meercat wrote:is there a way to avoid the tax implications of selling these shares early?
Say the share price is 520p on the first day you can sell (but you would normally pay tax on any sale you make that day). That gives you in theory, shares worth
613 x 520p = £3187.60
But as RobertT points out, if you sell, you would lose over £929 in Tax and National Insurance deductions
How about this strategy? Take out a 5-year loan from your bank, for the full (untaxed) value of the shares, rounded up slightly, to £3200. Use about two thirds of the sum borrowed to spend on the things you would have used your proceeds of selling the shares for. Keep £929 in a separate account, to make the loan repayments with.
(With approx £160 interest added, these would equate to monthly repayments of £56). Any dividends you receive on the 613 shares you didn't sell, and those you can't sell yet, add these to the account you're making the loan repayments from. The dividends on all 935* shares over the next two years should be at least £420.75 (see notes below)
When we get to October 2018, if you've followed my advice, your loan repayment account will have had £929 + £420.75 paid in [£1349.75] and paid out 24 months worth of £56 [-£1344], leaving a small credit balance of £5.75
Your outstanding loan amount, at that point, would be approx £2016.00
If the Royal Mail share price is, by then, still around the 520p/share level, THEN you sell 613 x 520p to receive £3167.60 (allowing for £20 selling fee) AND DON'T PAY ANY TAX OR NI.
Repay the remainder of the loan, and you've got £1151.60 left over, to spend as you like !
If the share price is LESS than 520p, then obviously, you'll have a bit less left over after repaying the loan. But what if the share price has risen to say, 600p by October 2018? You'll have even more money left over after repaying the loan ...
The share price would have to have dropped catastrophically, to about 332p, for the 613 shares to not be sufficient to pay off the outstanding loan. Which is not going to happen. Because if it got even close to that level, surely a rival would mount a takeover bid, to buy the company on the cheap ?
*935 is based on the current holdings of 832 shares for full-time employees, which is set to be boosted by another 103 shares or more when the SIP 2016 allocation of free shares is made shortly.
Total dividends over the next two years, based on 22.1p being paid out for 2015/16, should be at least 45p/share
Definitley in the wrong job,Well worked out sir.
Difference between selling next month and in 2yrs will be about £1000 including 2 yrs of lost dividends. You'd really have to be desperate or very short sighted to sell and lose that much moneyshlaire wrote:on 580 of initial shares how much would i take home on todays value 521.00 worth £3495
shlaire wrote:on 580 of initial shares how much would i take home on todays value 521.00 worth £3495