Royal Mail Union Threatens Strike to Protect Pension Plan

[cloherty1976]

Why ?? When you joined Royal Mail you were immediately enrolled into the pension scheme. You had to pay 6% and the employer paid their contributions. Your pension was your deferred pay and was part of your contract of employment.

Royal Mail sent you a yearly booklet showing what your pension would be at the age of 60 if your continue to work. This was in all other ways a contract. Why shouldt people be expected to think that Royal Mail would honour their part of that contract and therefore plan on the basis that this would be your pension ??

On the 8th February 2007 the then Adam Crozier give the following brief to employees ::

" Consultations will take place on ways to safeguard an affordable final salary scheme for existing employees. It is important we safeguard the future of pension fund for our people, who regard a final salary scheme as a key benefit of working for Royal Mail. "

Crozier and Leighton lied to the workforce when they closed the final salary scheme. Lets be clear the current management have made a choice that they would rather reward the shareholders than offer a good pension scheme for employers who have served this industry for years.

I don't accept that it is just down to individuals to fund their pension especially those who have week in week out paid their pension due in the expectation that the employer they work for would keep their part of the bargain and pay a decent pension.

Suppose I am a realist and lifetime contracts don't really exist anymore. Things change and agreements change. It's like when you take out a mortgage you agree to pay it but you lose your job, you can't pay but you agreed to pay it. Somethings have to give in this changing world and its not the same as it was in the past 100 years. More changes will happen whether we like it or not but we will have to deal with it. Management, workforce and workload will all change and who knows what the outcome will be.

[Martin Walsh]

Realist ?? Did banks not get fined billions and give compensation of billions for such things as false promises on endowment selling or PPi or rigging libel rates ?

Should we expect compensation for the Royal Mail for wrongfully putting us into a pension scheme which will not deliver what the company over decades have promised ?

I don't think your being a realist ! I think we are all being conned and the concerning thing is many seem too be buying into this sting !

Royal Mail can afford a decent pension for all Royal Mail employees post 2018 instead it is chosing too give more money too shareholders and attempt too condemn its hardworking members too a retirement of proverty

[GRS]

Spot on there Dingo. Everything you say is true - many just seem to be accepting it as "oh well these things happen". They won't be saying that when they reach retirement and suddenly realise that the fairy godmother doesn't exist and their RM pension doesn't give them anywhere near enough to live on but of course it will be too late then. Also many seem to be forgetting that the Canadian one and her cronies won't be taking a cut and couldn't give a frig about you.

[jetblack]

I don't think your being a realist ! I think we are all being conned and the concerning thing is many seem too be buying into this sting !

Royal Mail can afford a decent pension for all Royal Mail employees post 2018 instead it is chosing too give more money too shareholders and attempt too condemn its hardworking members too a retirement of proverty

I've got to say. I'm in complete agreement Dingo.

We are living in one of the richest countries in the world and RM is as close to a "dead cert" as you will find in a company.

Bond rates (for the time being) are stagnant, but the FTSE/Dow Jones are growing. Maybe the pension scheme needs to look at its asset allocation. Or the company needs to start digging in to the profits/shareholder dividend to cover the shortfall.

To put it in old fashioned terms the proposal to cut the DB scheme will make the poor poorer. No use saying its all their own fault/but it makes business sense etc. This is peoples lives we are talking about here. People who have contributed to the company scheme, and so have thought about their retirement planning. They might not be qualified actuaries or accountants, no, as I am not, but I don't think I should be penalised for it, surely.

Who are we ? Postman Thatcher

[mark.cup]

Lets all take a cut so the top ranking blood suckers can have another 5 million in shares...

Amazing how all that sort of sh#t is never questioned

[cloherty1976]

Realist ?? Did banks not get fined billions and give compensation of billions for such things as false promises on endowment selling or PPi or rigging libel rates ?

Should we expect compensation for the Royal Mail for wrongfully putting us into a pension scheme which will not deliver what the company over decades have promised ?

I don't think your being a realist ! I think we are all being conned and the concerning thing is many seem too be buying into this sting !

Royal Mail can afford a decent pension for all Royal Mail employees post 2018 instead it is chosing too give more money too shareholders and attempt too condemn its hardworking members too a retirement of proverty

Maybe we might get compensation then! Wonder how long We will be waiting?

[nataddick]

For me, the sense of realism comes from the fact that the CWU have tried but failed to stop RM making major changes to our pensions in recent years and I don't see it changing this time around. Dingo,the CWU should be explaining to members why, in the past, they have not been able to hold RM to account over their contractual pensions obligations and why they think it will be any different on this occasion.

[cloherty1976]

For me, the sense of realism comes from the fact that the CWU have tried but failed to stop RM making major changes to our pensions in recent years and I don't see it changing this time around. Dingo,the CWU should be explaining to members why, in the past, they have not been able to hold RM to account over their contractual pensions obligations and why they think it will be any different on this occasion.

Such good points but remember the union will only talk about the future and not what they did in the past about this issue.

[fishtank]

How can people plan for their future when the company keeps moving the goalposts?
How many times do we have to accept this?

[cloherty1976]

How can people plan for their future when the company keeps moving the goalposts?
How many times do we have to accept this?

Very true and very difficult but that is life today. Like a roller coaster lots of ups and downs.

[Martin Walsh]

Natadick I explain exactly what happened ! It www during the Pay and Mod dispute in 2007 when pension was decoupled from the main part of the dispute.

Remember Royal Mail wanted too make £300 million cuts they presented a list too the CWU. They included the following :

Clear boxes no more than twice per day
Remove all night shifts
Move 2nd class to more efficient units
Close weekend inward operation and move too Monday
Remove all door too door payments
Cease election material payments
Elimate all overtime payments
Move too monthly pay
Absorb 6 walks into 5 during the summer
Absorb 4 Saturday firms too 3
Absorb short term sick leave between 5 walks

There were many more cuts ! We even produced posters which said the pay deal had more stings than Pinocchio !

So after 8 days of strike action with varying degrees of support around the UK ! The main cites were strong ! After the 8th Royal Mail on withdrawal of the early morning allowance said there would be later starts Liverpool and London than came out unofficially and was out for a week.

The CWU than go an agreement which maintained the allowance and 3 year pay deal and stopped some of the strings.

The CWU than held a National Briefing in Northampton. Royal Mail at that stage were offering the Care Scheme too replace the final salary.

London Union reps wanted too take further strike action on pensions ! However in Manchester , Stockport , Crewe , Liverpool , Coventry , Milton Keynes were facing Mail centre closures and wanted too concentrate on that as one said " you can have the best pension scheme in the world but if you don't have a job it means nothing "

Equally others did not thing their members would come out for a 9 or 10th day of strike action over pensions. Let's be honest a lot of members who are in their 20S and 30s don't really think about pensions which will pay out in 30 or 25 years !

So the CWU concluded the Care Scheme deal and the members voted by a huge majority for it.

Now the CARE scheme is a good scheme not as good as a final salary scheme but a very good scheme in its own right. The difference now is Royal Mail want too close the defined benefit scheme and put everyone in a defined contribution scheme which is not going too give a good pension.

So when people comment on the CWU surrendering the final salary let's be clear too have strike action to have too have the support of Branch's and members and two remember the members voted too accept the CARE scheme replacing the Final salary scheme. Unions are a collective group !

[nataddick]

Dingo, it is always interesting to learn your view on these issues and I can recall along with many other members supporting the CWU with strike action. On reflection, do you think it was right to decouple the pension issue from the main dispute ? Did it weaken or strengthen the CWU's negotiating position on pensions ?

The point you make about the Union being a collective group is a very good one and I accept that the CWU members voted through the change from final salary to CARE but it was as a result of a recommendation from CWU headquarters. I don't doubt that without CWU involvement on pension issues, RM would have gone further with the reforms. However, RM did get the change they wanted from final salary to CARE and the subsequent changes to pensionable pay. At some point, parties have to concede that they have got the best deal on the table and I am sure that RM were happier than the CWU with the outcome.

I note from the Policy Document from the Postal Policy Forum held in March that there are around 90,000 RMPP members and 44,000 RMDCP members. While the RMPP members have a vested interest in keeping their scheme open to future accrual, the RMDCP members do not ! On the face of it, the CWU may have trouble getting the RMDCP pension scheme members who are in the CWU to vote for industrial action on an issue that does not directly affect them. The funding levels of the RMDCP cannot be in question since it is set at a fixed percentage of pensionable pay - capping RM's liability and exactly what they want ! They could, of course, gain from an improved Defined Contribution Plan but many may choose not strike for it. It will certainly test the CWU leadership to gain enough support from the diverse group that form its collective membership.

I have no qualms in supporting the CWU on the pension issue through industrial action if necessary as we need the negotiating team to be in the strongest position to secure the best possible outcome for all pension scheme members. My own view, is that we will end up with an improved RMDCP and that the RMPP will close to future accrual - the CWU may secure a stay of execution but it will inevitably happen.

I understand that pension talks are taking place towards the end of this month, so will be keen to learn of any developments.

[Martin Walsh]

I did not think the Pension should have been decoupled the problem was the two things had different timescales and therefore we would have had too delay the settlement on Pay and Mod meaning further strike action.

Secondly on the Pension issue , yes there are 43 000 in the DC scheme but over 20 000 of them were previous members of the DB scheme and opted out and therefore got Auto enrolled into the scheme when the Government changed the law. So these 20 000 would have supported the previous pension and terms and conditions dispute in 2007.

Those who joined post 2008 will be in the DC scheme the unagreed scheme and the union has too appeal to them that they want them in a better scheme maybe a slightly different DB scheme or a much better employer contribution to the DC scheme with better death in service and other associated benefits. The majority in the DC scheme contribute just 4% and the employer 7% that will not give a reasonable retirement income unless they work into their 70s unlikely with Royal Mail plans for delivery.

Equally the pensions issue and Royal Mail strategy is likely to converge including longer spans , later starts , removal of attendance spans , closure of 1 in 3 delivery offices and further closures of Mail centres and RDCs.

[GRS]

There must be hundreds of thousands of people in the UK who at some point have worked for RM for a very small amount of time thus have contributed very little to the company and it's future and yet will have some sort of pension payment due when they reach retirement.How about writing to them and changing their conditions and basically telling them to F off instead of constantly nibbling away at those who are putting 30/40 plus years in.

[heapsy]

There must be hundreds of thousands of people in the UK who at some point have worked for RM for a very small amount of time thus have contributed very little to the company and it's future and yet will have some sort of pension payment due when they reach retirement.How about writing to them and changing their conditions and basically telling them to F off instead of constantly nibbling away at those who are putting 30/40 plus years in.

Unfortunately they can't. Whatever they have built up is theirs. Same with us, no matter how small a pension. maybe they could offer a payment to transfer to another scheme but that might be illegal. Not sure on that one. As a general rule, if someone has a smallish pension they are probably better transferring to another scheme, as that money should grow by a greater amount over time.