BASIC FYLL TIME ANNUAL SALARY

[bainser]

Does anyone know what the basic full time annual salary for an APHG or PHG was in the year 2001? desperately required!

[baldrick]

My Pension Plan statement for the tax year ending 31 March 2002 shows my basic pay and assigned allowances (inc PHG allowance) as £16,687. But that would include Inner London Weighting - I can't remember how much it was then, but my guess would be around £2,500pa.
My 2001 weekly wage slips show my basic pay as £300.91 but again I think that includes Inner London Weighting, and my Pay Supplement as £20 - I think that is the PHG Allowance.

[bainser]

Thanks very much for your information which puts it exactly what I reckon the fulltime basic salary would have been around that time, I am at odds with the Pension Centre, they are using a figure of £11,135.96 which to me is a load of rubbish, I am also sure that when I worked the late shift, the night duty allowance was also pensionable, if there is anyone out there who could confirm I am right, it would be gratefully appreciated. all I can say is that I feel my pension which is due now is just a mess, they have no record of my ever having worked any overtime in the years between 1989 and 2001 when I left, how can overtime disappear into thin air? Can anyone give me the contact for Ray Ellis, the CWU. email or telephone number please, thanks.

[RobertT]

Thanks very much for your information which puts it exactly what I reckon the fulltime basic salary would have been around that time, I am at odds with the Pension Centre, they are using a figure of £11,135.96 which to me is a load of rubbish, I am also sure that when I worked the late shift, the night duty allowance was also pensionable, if there is anyone out there who could confirm I am right, it would be gratefully appreciated. all I can say is that I feel my pension which is due now is just a mess, they have no record of my ever having worked any overtime in the years between 1989 and 2001 when I left, how can overtime disappear into thin air? Can anyone give me the contact for Ray Ellis, the CWU. email or telephone number please, thanks.

Your pension is based on basic pay and allowances, overtime is not included.

[baldrick]

Yes, overtime was not pensionable, except for Sunday overtime which was pensionable until June 2002 iirc - that was ended by the Way Forward Agreement. But the Night Duty Allowance paid for hours after 1900 would have been pensionable.

[baldrick]

I am at odds with the Pension Centre, they are using a figure of £11,135.96

It would be based on your actual pensionable earnings in the tax year in which you left RM.
Did you leave RM before the end of the tax year (April 2002)? You say you left in 2001, so you would not have a full year's pensionable earnings. If you left before April 2002 your pensionable earnings would be less obviously.
tbf I would think that the figures given by the Pension Centre would be correct as they are computerised.

[RobertT]

It doesn’t matter when in the tax year you leave! This is taken from the ‘guide to benefits(c)’ on the pension website:

Final pensionable pay – This is used to calculate your pension benefits that relate to your service before 1 April 2008 and the lump sum benefit paid to your dependants if you die while still working for the Company.
It is either: Your highest pensionable pay for any calculation year during the last three years of your reckonable service, ending on your last day of reckonable service; or, if greater the highest average of your pensionable pay in any three consecutive tax years in the last 10 years before you leave service, take your benefits or die.

Where final pensionable pay is determined using a calculation year (or tax years) other than that which ends on your last day of reckonable service, it will be increased to take account of the period between the end of the calculation year and the last pension increase date before leaving reckonable service.

[baldrick]

Oh OK RobertT. I thought that was when you took your pension and left RM. I didn't know it applied if you left RM and your pension was frozen until you could take it (at 60?).

Edit: Having thought about it that would be right. Pension must be based on at least 12 months pay, so either the 12 months before leaving or the best in the previous 3 years. Couldn't be based on just the tax year as one might have just worked a few days or weeks into the tax year.

[bainser]

It doesn’t matter when in the tax year you leave! This is taken from the ‘guide to benefits(c)’ on the pension website:

Final pensionable pay – This is used to calculate your pension benefits that relate to your service before 1 April 2008 and the lump sum benefit paid to your dependants if you die while still working for the Company.
It is either: Your highest pensionable pay for any calculation year during the last three years of your reckonable service, ending on your last day of reckonable service; or, if greater the highest average of your pensionable pay in any three consecutive tax years in the last 10 years before you leave service, take your benefits or die.

Where final pensionable pay is determined using a calculation year (or tax years) other than that which ends on your last day of reckonable service, it will be increased to take account of the period between the end of the calculation year and the last pension increase date before leaving reckonable service.

Yes, this is indeed correct in how final pensionable pay is determined, the yearly full-time basic salary for a PHG must have been more than £11, 195 in 2001 though!

[bainser]

Thanks very much for your information which puts it exactly what I reckon the fulltime basic salary would have been around that time, I am at odds with the Pension Centre, they are using a figure of £11,135.96 which to me is a load of rubbish, I am also sure that when I worked the late shift, the night duty allowance was also pensionable, if there is anyone out there who could confirm I am right, it would be gratefully appreciated. all I can say is that I feel my pension which is due now is just a mess, they have no record of my ever having worked any overtime in the years between 1989 and 2001 when I left, how can overtime disappear into thin air? Can anyone give me the contact for Ray Ellis, the CWU. email or telephone number please, thanks.

Your pension is based on basic pay and allowances, overtime is not included.

It was the Pension Centre who informed me that any overtime worked is Pensionable!!!

[RobertT]

It was the Pension Centre who informed me that any overtime worked is Pensionable!!!

As Baldrick rightly says, some overtime was pensionable but 'normal' OT isn't. The pension service centre are wrong in what they say, but then again they are useless most of the time!
Have you factored in the Lower Earnings Deduction into your numbers? So basically you need to reduce your actual pay by £3,328 to get to your pensionable pay figure.

[baldrick]

@ RobertT. My pensionable earnings were £16,687 for 2001/2 tax year. Assuming Inner London Weighting was around £2,500, the op should still have a pensionable earnings of around £14,000 shouldn't he. Would the Lower Earnings Deduction affect that?

[RobertT]

@ RobertT. My pensionable earnings were £16,687 for 2001/2 tax year. Assuming Inner London Weighting was around £2,500, the op should still have a pensionable earnings of around £14,000 shouldn't he. Would the Lower Earnings Deduction affect that?

I have all my old RM payslips and back in 2001/02 my basic pay was £250.53 per week with an early shift allowance of £5.53(0530 hours) plus reserved rights driving allowance of £6.00(not pensionable). Giving a basic pensionable wage of £13,315. Take off the Lower Earnings Deduction and that leaves £9,987.12.

My pension illustration for the same year shows the above figure plus another £131 worth of pensionable allowances (not too sure where they come from tbh), giving total pensionable pay of £10,118.

If your £20 per week PHG allowance is correct, that would add another £1040 to the figure, giving £11,158. So by my reckoning, the amount bainser has been quoted is more or less spot on.#

My figures only include the pay I earned as a normal postie as I've never worked late shifts etc, tbh I can't remember whether they were pensionable or not.

[baldrick]

OK so the figures given to op seem about right then. I thought £250pw basic would be about right outside London.
Night Duty Allowance for hours worked after 1900 was pensionable if it was for scheduled duty, but I'm not sure if it was pensionable if it was overtime - probably not.

[bainser]

Managed to print a copy of the Way Forward agreement and the pay package for the year 2000 which gives a national pensionable basic pay of £242.76 per week (£12,667) per year at 1999 rates! Also I would have an evening shift allowance (NDA it was called then) of £15.30 fully pensionable I remember being down on my payslips. So, surely if I present this to the pension centre, they cannot dispute it. I see no calculation on their breakdown of this allowance and feel I am right to push for the £12,667 plus NDA because they are cheating me!