Injured at work is he at fault??

[Royalstaff]

Hi guys,

I got a question... Am I at fault if I injure myself whilst on delivery due to not receiving
The so called post it pegs. And a dog bites me due to sticking my fingers in the letter box which
I had no choice to due to not having that posting peg. Some of us in our office were not offered it
at all. Who is at fault for my injury myself or the company.

Please feel free to express your thoughts.

Many thanks Guys.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Yes and No depends on the incident as well other factors.

Should Royal Mail issue everyone Posting pegs - Yes. But is it possible to deliver mail safetly without it - Yes (at least in the majority of cases it is)

Even, or perhaps especially, not having the posting peg you should not put your hand all the way through. Royal Mail will say that even not having the posting peg you could have used any number of things to push the mail fully through the letterbox. A pen, other items of mail not yet delivered etc. Or ultimately you can legimately refuse to deliver to that address if you hear the dog behind the door.

When I don't have the peg (broken etc) at problem addresses I bend the mail into a C shape and push one end through, then stop and use another peice of mail to push it fully through. Yes it takes time but never had my fingers nipped yet.

Some H&S issues are not as Black and white as people think. It is still the responsibility of the individual to work in a safe a manner as possible and reduce their own risk of injury or harm if at all possible.

[Lounge Lizard]

Hi guys,

I got a question... Am I at fault if I injure myself whilst on delivery due to not receiving
The so called post it pegs. And a dog bites me due to sticking my fingers in the letter box which
I had no choice to due to not having that posting peg. Some of us in our office were not offered it
at all. Who is at fault for my injury myself or the company.

Please feel free to express your thoughts.

Many thanks Guys.

But having not received a posting peg it was your duty, under the Health and Safety at Work Act, to keep asking for one and to take extra care until one was received.

[hans solo]

local counciler in west of scotland pressed charges against dog owner and received compensation from state when delivering his own leaflets by pushing his hand through letterbox fact
you have a compen claim regardless of what rm think or say

[Royalstaff]

Yes and No depends on the incident as well other factors.

Should Royal Mail issue everyone Posting pegs - Yes. But is it possible to deliver mail safetly without it - Yes (at least in the majority of cases it is)

Even, or perhaps especially, not having the posting peg you should not put your hand all the way through. Royal Mail will say that even not having the posting peg you could have used any number of things to push the mail fully through the letterbox. A pen, other items of mail not yet delivered etc. Or ultimately you can legimately refuse to deliver to that address if you hear the dog behind the door.

When I don't have the peg (broken etc) at problem addresses I bend the mail into a C shape and push one end through, then stop and use another peice of mail to push it fully through. Yes it takes time but never had my fingers nipped yet.

Some H&S issues are not as Black and white as people think. It is still the responsibility of the individual to work in a safe a manner as possible and reduce their own risk of injury or harm if at all possible.

Thank you for your reply,

Is it my responsibility to ask for a peg or is it Royal Mail's duty
of care to ensure all their workers have the correct work equipment
Bearing in mind I'm a newbie not knowing the ins and out and other
Tricks such as folding the mail, using a pen etc.. Where does it say on the
Royal Mail policy book that all staff should receive a posting peg
And would this be classed as a ppe and I did not know you can refuse
Delivery due to the presence of a dog and that was not something
That was mentioned to me..

Thanks All for your help.

[noggin1969]

Register it as an AOD on the ERICA and with the DWP. See your rep or HS rep and ask for a claim form ( if in the union ) Simpson Millar will take a claim forward if they think there is blame.

[bogstandard]

i would think it comes under tools for the job.
you were not supplied with them even when requested, however you did make the decision with this as the end result.
It is not beyond the realms of possibility to conclude that this is due to your lack of knowledge a fear of failure and fear of being taken down the conduct code.
you do as previously stated need to record the event regardless of fault with RM. get in touch with the DWP, and if you are in the union you will need an LS 3 form.


DWP.
on the internet go to gov.uk
in the search bar enter bi 100 a form
click on industrial injuries disablement benefit form.
click no.4 How to claim.
scroll down to "download claim form BI100A (pdf, 368kb)

best of luck

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Is it my responsibility to ask for a peg or is it Royal Mail's duty of care to ensure all their workers have the correct work equipment

The answer is Both yours and Royal Mails, you are both jointly responsible for your health and safety, you should have asked how to deal with the situation and they should have given you the peg and explained what it was for and how to use it

Bearing in mind I'm a newbie not knowing the ins and out and other
Tricks such as folding the mail, using a pen etc..

These should have either been covered by your workplace coach who is training/trained you or at your induction

Where does it say on the Royal Mail policy book that all staff should receive a posting peg

It doesnt, it is mentionend in the Safe Systems of Work

And would this be classed as a ppe

Yes

I did not know you can refuse Delivery due to the presence of a dog and that was not something
That was mentioned to me..

you are not obliged to delier anywhere that there is a risk to your safety, ie slippy paths, hoses etc on paths or any tripping hazards, if there is dog on loose or even in garden you do not need to go in to garden or down the street it is loose in,

[Brainache]

You dont have to push mail through the draught brush/flap - only past the outside flap.

[Himaggen]

In the Risk Management Section of the Accident / RTC Investigation form there are the following questions:

• Do SSOW exist for activity? (state any applicable)
• Has IP/Driver been trained on SSOW? (Date and details)
• Is relevant Risk Assessment in place?
• Are there any relevant visuals in area (signs or OPLs)?
• Where defined in SSOW, was signage on display?
• Was correct PPE defined in SSOW used for task?
• Was lack of PPE a contributory factor?
• Have there been any similar incidents locally?
• Did Walk Log identify risk prior to incident?
• Has any action been taken previously?
• If so, which element of SSOW/SOP was not performed?

The answers to many of these are auditable. So for example, if your Manager says you've had the relevant training and been provided with the PPE, then they must be able to show your signatures and dates for the training and issue of equipment. (Posting Pegs are supposed to be issued to signature)

[Royalstaff]

In the Risk Management Section of the Accident / RTC Investigation form there are the following questions:

• Do SSOW exist for activity? (state any applicable)
• Has IP/Driver been trained on SSOW? (Date and details)
• Is relevant Risk Assessment in place?
• Are there any relevant visuals in area (signs or OPLs)?
• Where defined in SSOW, was signage on display?
• Was correct PPE defined in SSOW used for task?
• Was lack of PPE a contributory factor?
• Have there been any similar incidents locally?
• Did Walk Log identify risk prior to incident?
• Has any action been taken previously?
• If so, which element of SSOW/SOP was not performed?

The answers to many of these are auditable. So for example, if your Manager says you've had the relevant training and been provided with the PPE, then they must be able to show your signatures and dates for the training and issue of equipment. (Posting Pegs are supposed to be issued to signature)

Thanks All for your help,

What's is minimum level of training a postie (newbie) should receive before going out
on delivery? And should I expect/receive further training on first day at work not including
Induction.

Ok so if posting peg is classed as a ppe does the manager have a right to refuse to give
Me one due to "only delivering a small amount of letters" or am I entitled to one at all times
when on delivery??

Thanks.

[Himaggen]

Your second day is your workplace induction as opposed to the classroom induction delivered on day 1. Most of the pre-delivery training, including watching the 'Delivering Safely' Program is supposed to happen on that day. You should be all day with the Manager, Workplace Coach and Safety Rep undertaking that training.
Days 3-5 you should spend in the Company of the Workplace Coach, during IPS, prep and on delivery. You should receive practical coaching and be able to demonstrate yourself what you have learned.
You are technically training on the job from week two, during that time your training record should be updated by the Workplace Coach and monitored by the Manager until it is finally signed off as complete on week thirteen.

Your Manager can do whatever they wish, you have no right to tell them what they can or cannot do!
However your advice, is to endorse accordingly and return with every item which you feel at the point of delivery you cannot safely deliver as a result of the Managers refusal to provide you with the required PPE. I would also suggest you do this accompanied by your Union Safety/IR Representative.
Incidentally, Managers are encouraged to stop and perform SMATS in any town and with any delivery operative they should happen to see. That manager should ask you to show them your posting peg and may even ask you to show them how you would use it.

[gluteus maximus]

Have these post pegs been officially designated as PPE by both Royal Mail and the Trade Union. Have they been included as PPE in any risk assessment or SSOW?

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Have these post pegs been officially designated as PPE by both Royal Mail and the Trade Union. Have they been included as PPE in any risk assessment or SSOW?

Yes to all of the above

[motch]

You dont have to push mail through the draught brush/flap - only past the outside flap.

I tend to push the letters right through as a rule. Although if there's a known dog there i'll do the above.

So I can just push mail past the outside flap? I know a few customers phone up and moan if others don't push it right through, or leave it on display through the glass door.

Leaving it just past the outside flap could save some time i'd guess over the day.