LTB:National Dispute Official Update

[Danelectro]

the majority of slightly nervous members in between and speaking as a rep I know that there was a small enough window of opportunity for strikes to be effective which has more or less closed now.
.

Wouldn't say I worked in a particularly militant office so have been surprised by how much members felt let down by the talks updates and the leaks suggesting that fair workloads in deliveries are not close to being settled.

Have also been surprised at how much were prepared to strike during xmas pressure and even those with kids who want to have a decent festive period would prefer to come home from work with a smile on their face the whole year round rather than pissed off and shattered on the Royal Mail treadmill.

Either theres a massive problem in deliveries or there isn't but I think its dawning on members in my office that what is being asked of them on a daily basis is beyond what they can manage long term and I do think many were willing to take action to change this.

[halfull]

They cannot touch you if you are working to the guidelines and your contracted hours.

Of course they can,everybody makes mistakes.
Not everyone can handle being watched every minute of the day,having their performance questioned every day,not knowing whether their 3 month contract will be renewed,being shoved onto all the shitty jobs every day,being pushed and prodded and goaded into saying something you regret and working your contracted hours isn't much fun when it's 22hrs and you have a family to feed.
What you're talking about works for some but not for all,that's obvious given the amount of bullying reports the union is getting,as a union we have to look to protect the weakest,not make big speeches about what "everybody" should be doing.
We all know what in an ideal world everybody should be doing but this isn't an ideal world.

you missed moving them from office to office as punishment if they cut off

[steve1873]

Now we are so close to Christmas, I would find it very difficult to justify a strike to my family.
Its one thing struggling to pay the bills, but when it comes to the kids potentially missing out on presents.
That's another whole kettle of fish. They would not understand why there are no presents under the tree.
And its unfair to ask them to either.

I want to see smiles on my kids faces not tears.

So about time CWU came up with the goods, or they can pack up and piss off.

And here is EXACTLY what RM are banking on - delay, delay, delay and it is soon so close to xmas that support for strikes begins to falter.

I don't disagree with your sentiments btw.

[Glenno]

Equally Royal Mail cannot string the talks on we have to take strike action to keep the ballot live before the end of November.

Looking at this thread this would seem a bit of a long reach, I/A seems dead in the water, strike while the iron is hot does not seem to be in our Unions armoury, but hey ho lets give another 7 days, get the BIG GUNS out and sure as pie there will be an Agreement, whether it is palatable for the Membership(especially deliveries) who knows, but I can assure all on this site there is....... Whoops...... loose lips

[POSTMAN]

I think whatever we get in delivery should be heavily policed and enforced then continually monitored and assessed to make sure the spirit of the agreement is adhere to by all the parties.

If you look hard enough,from memory,those very words are-in a round about way somewhere in the 2007 and 2010 agreements....
...good luck,and nice try.

[fishtank]

My point was that we should be looking after the 'weakest' on an office level and not allowing them to be bullied. Get them into the union and support each other.

I think we've been trialing this model for a long time now with at best mixed results and to be honest if the level of bullying and broken agreements in delivery offices reported to HQ is anything to go by,pretty pathetic results in some areas.
How bad do we let it get for some members,whole offices and even areas before we stop seeing responsibility end at the delivery office gate?

If all a member sees of a union is his/her own office rep and Billy Hayes on the TV why would that member think that everyone in between from Area Reps to Regional Secs to Divisional Reps and National Officers were a necessary expense?

There is a huge disconnect between a lot of members and HQ,A massive void which should be filled with many people whose job it is to make sure every member is connected,Too many of them aren't up to it.Nobody wants to face that in this union,Nobody ever has.
We're not a professional union and it shows,pushing all the responsibility down to local level gives these people somewhere to hide.

[wandle]

There is another consequence to introducing a further 7 day 'period of calm'

Let's say things do somehow progress well, and both sides come to an agreement by November 20th.

Any deal then has to be put to the membership.

Can the CWU reps do full briefings to members, giving us all the finer details of the agreement, give us their considered recommendation on whether we should vote yes/no to the deal, despatch ballot papers, and get all the votes counted, by November 27th ? The answer is obvious: absolutely not.

Even if both sides were to reach agreement tomorrow morning (14th), I would say it is still impossible to brief us / give recommendation / ballot / declare the result of the ballot by November 27th. The timescale is way too short.

I fear that the consequence of 'bottling it' yesterday is that Royal Mail will say 'here's the agreement lads, no need to set a strike date now'. The CWU will be suckered into setting up roadshows (sound familiar?) to sell the agreement, then despatch the ballot papers, asking us to accept (or reject) the deal they brokered. Meanwhile, somewhat unnoticed, the crucial date of November 27th slips by, whilst we're still conducting the ballot on whether to accept or reject the agreement. Having not taken any strike action, the original strike ballot is now out-of-date.

This would mean that voting No, to reject the revised pay / terms and conditions deal is not really an option.

Why?

Because if the membership vote to reject the deal, the process of re-balloting the membership on whether or not they are prepared to take strike action would take, what, three weeks? Add onto that, the legal requirement to serve 7 days notice of a strike, and the earliest we would then be able to be on strike would be round about... December 25th

[chrisj]

lollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollol

Laugh Out Loud!

[pcb]

What is this rubbish about "the union bottling it" crap?
The union is trying to get the best deal for delivery period!
So let's think about it the union has already got concessions! It's trying to get more.
Delivery has always been the driving force when it comes to ballots so all previous ballots have been voted in by the delivery majority.
Let the union do its job!

[pink panther]

Fur fox sake when is the cwu going to grow a set of balls and stop running. How long do they need???????????

[Lounge Lizard]

"Let's say things do somehow progress well, and both sides come to an agreement by November 20th" and then national 'newspapers' can report that we don't strike now that we own shares in the company.

[123456]

it pains me to say it.........but its all over..whatever the deal, it will be voted in..grand announcements will be made,big smiles,flag waving.but the reality will be that the C.W.U have been outmanouvered and have finally run out of time..question is whats the future for our amateur union and more importantly US!!!!!

[wandle]

What is this rubbish about "the union bottling it" crap?

IT'S NOT CRAP. THEY SHOULD HAVE AGREED TO A BALLOT EXTENSION, BUT ISSUED LEGAL NOTICE, AND SET A STRIKE DATE OF 27TH NOVEMBER
If Royal Mail said 'why are you setting a strike date? we are close to putting pen to paper on a deal'
CWU would then be justified in asking 'why are you objecting to us setting a strike date? the fact of a ticking time bomb should not worry you in the slightest, Unless, of course, you are bullsh!tting us, and just playing for time '

The union is trying to get the best deal for delivery!
But Royal Mail are playing the 2010 game, running down the clock, without actually signing anything

So let's think about it the union has already got concessions!
NO IT HASN'T! THERE IS NO DEAL YET. THE CONCESSIONS HAVE NOT BEEN 'WON' UNTIL THEY ARE THERE, IN WRITING, IN A SIGNED AGREEMENT

Delivery has always been the driving force when it comes to ballots so all previous ballots have been voted in by the delivery majority.
Let the union do its job!

Past performance: only about 2/3rds of members actually bother to vote, on pay deals, So, let's say, out of 115000 potential voters, only 76,666 votes are returned.
For the deal to be accepted, a minimum of 38,334 YES votes are required (vs 38,332 NO votes)

So, if 38,334 delivery staff vote Yes (out of approx 95,000 delivery members), the deal gets accepted. In the real world, only 41% of delivery members would need - from past ballot turnout experience - to accept the deal, for it to be inflicted on EVERYONE.

[dvbuk55]

it pains me to say it.........but its all over..whatever the deal, it will be voted in..grand announcements will be made,big smiles,flag waving.but the reality will be that the C.W.U have been outmanouvered and have finally run out of time..question is whats the future for our amateur union and more importantly US!!!!!

Oh don't worry about the gravy trainers, they'll make sure they're OK and will continue to rake in the cash from those misguided enough. Next on the list Employee Shares involvement to ensure there is something to keep them occupied, also a complex issue but I'm sure they'll find a way to get your share issue vote.

[Lincox]

Wandle is absolutely right. There is no way if an agreement is made and placed before the members that strike action can be contemplated before christmas if a no vote is carried. Personally I do not think a no vote can be carried because the majority of members will be looking at one item on the agenda and that is pay. 20% of the members who are not in deliveries will vote based on pay, backdated pay, lump sum offer and longevity of any terms and conditions guarantees. I would say a significant proportion of deliveries will vote the same and so it will probably only require 30% of deliveries to decide on which way this goes. A sad endictment bearing in mind the shameful problems there are in deliveries.