Pay offer

[cloherty1976]

Did they reveal what the 2nd closed pay offer was ?

[fishtank]

No.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Did they reveal what the 2nd closed pay offer was ?

Not in detail. http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... er#p581876" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[cloherty1976]

Thank you for your response but if it was a futile offer wouldn't it be better to reveal it on the unions part as they revealed the first. Surely it would show what Royal Mail are up to and if they are serious about solving this issue.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Thank you for your response but if it was a futile offer wouldn't it be better to reveal it on the unions part as they revealed the first. Surely it would show what Royal Mail are up to and if they are serious about solving this issue.

Umm You want the Union to show Royal Mail in a good light when we are heading towards a dispute , and anyway if you read my link you'll see that even Royal Mail said it wasn't their final offer.

[cloherty1976]

Not saying that all just don't understand if it was a bad offer surely the staff would see what they are upto and then ind them up and make a strike more likely.

[fishtank]

Thank you for your response but if it was a futile offer wouldn't it be better to reveal it on the unions part as they revealed the first. Surely it would show what Royal Mail are up to and if they are serious about solving this issue.

Why?
The offer was still conditional on accepting the pension changes.
The membership has already told the union that's unacceptable.
Waving figures in front of the membership every time Royal Mail ups the offer a tiny bit knowing you still can't accept the offer would be pretty pathetic and pointless.

The first offer was revealed to explain Royal Mail's starting position,that's only fair to the members that they get to know what was on the table to begin with,the only important offer now is the final one that the union believes fulfils their obligations and the members get to vote on..

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Not saying that all just don't understand if it was a bad offer surely the staff would see what they are upto and then ind them up and make a strike more likely.

But as they admitted it wasn't their final offer what would be the point of going into detail, the fact that they are trying to get a deal as cheaply as possible is enough of a message surely.

...... and What He Said^^^^

[cloherty1976]

If you went to buy a property would you make an offer and say its not my final offer. I just don't see this happening myself

[TrueBlueTerrier]

If you went to buy a property would you make an offer and say its not my final offer. I just don't see this happening myself

If the Union lied in an official document sent to their own members, RM would be over it all like a rash with counter messages, legal claims and injunctions, it may indeed be a ploy by the CWU but its an incredibly dangerous and unlikely one in my opinion.

[cloherty1976]

Sorry I never said anything about lying just would want to know the truth of the matter.

[fishtank]

If you went to buy a property would you make an offer and say its not my final offer. I just don't see this happening myself

The closed offer process is to protect both parties from misuse of the negotiation process.
Imagine the scenario of Royal Mail originally offering 8.4%,then a week later 8.2%,then a week later 8.0%.
Half the membership might want to walk but the other half would panic.
I'm all for keeping the membership informed of how negotiations are going but not as a propaganda tool for our employer.

[cloherty1976]

I understand what your saying fishtank but they revealed the first and that was a closed offer too.

[Brain Fury]

There's no point in the CWU revealing the detail of the offer if they are not going to recommend it. I suspect RM agreed not to publicise it in order to keep negotiations going. I must admit the bit about it not being the final offer is confusing.

As for the pension proposals, I understand why it's been rejected as in "we don't like it" but has the CWU or anybody else proposed an alternative solution?

[fishtank]

I understand what your saying fishtank but they revealed the first and that was a closed offer too.

If you don't reveal the opening offer how do your members know you have gained anything especially if you are going to ask them to take industrial action?

That mistake was made in 2009 when we only had the union's word for what was going to happen had we not taken action.
Subsequently after the BT2010 deal the membership felt that nothing had been gained at all.

At least now the members will be able to look at what was on offer and what will eventually resolve this situation and make an informed decision as to whether it was worth it.