Accepting shares means they can sack you whenever they like

[stephen500]

Fishtank - it doesn't matter how many times you write "it isn't a shares for rights" scheme.
Visionary Man appears to be pursuing his own agenda of spreading misinformation and undermining confidence in the CWU.
He is talking shite , deliberately, and he knows it.

If I was a moderator I would ban him.
We have enough battles, real battles, ahead without people being encouraged to get sidetracked to start tilting at windmills.

You really must be joking!
I for one am grateful that "Geoff" would take the time to make us aware of this.
Nobody is saying Geoff is right or that any one else is wrong.
But we do need to be sure.
There is too much riding re terms and conditions if the act does apply.
So I await a reply from Gary Redmond (RM HQ), and Vince Cable or Michael Fallon (via my mp)
I want to see it in writing that it does not apply to me!
As for banning people because they are trying to be helpful, how can any one suggest this.
Members of the forum have to right to ask questions and for us to debate them.
It may well be that "Fish tank" is right and no one is saying he is not.
But this is too important not to drill down and be sure.

[stephen500]

Sent today:

Dear Gary Redmond, (Royal Mail HQ)

Open Letter:

The more I read of the Growth and Infrastructure Act 2013, the more concerned I become.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... 31/enacted" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course there is a way around this for Royal Mail, which is to ensure that any free shares are not given out to the value of £2000 or more.

Ie to ensure that the value is less then £2000.

Also Royal Mail if covered by this act would have to ensure, if shares were given out over and above £2000 that it complies with

"section 205A(6) [Which]prevents an employee shareholder agreement between a company and an individual from taking legal effect unless the individual has received advice from a relevant independent adviser about the terms and effect of the proposed agreement"

This will result in substantial cost to the company as

"(7)Any reasonable costs incurred by the individual in obtaining the advice (whether or not the individual becomes an employee shareholder) which would, but for this subsection, have to be met by the individual are instead to be met by the company"

The worst parts of the act as stated before are:

(2)An employee who is an employee shareholder does not have—

(a)the right to make an application under section 63D (request to undertake study or training),

(b)the right to make an application under section 80F (request for flexible working),

(c)the right under section 94 not to be unfairly dismissed, or

(d)the right under section 135 to a redundancy payment.

So We really need to know does this Act apply for the government's proposed share issue to Royal Mail's employees?
Is Royal Mail aware of the need to provide independent advice, if the share issue is considered a share issue for the purposes of this act?

I have also to give notice that if the share issue is covered by this act, I will be declining your offer.

Yours sincerely,

[stephen500]

Gary Redmond's reply in full and my reply (received today 19/7/2013)
"From: Gary Redmond
To: Stephen
Sent: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 12:38
Subject: Shares 14430
Dear Stephen
Thank you for your enquiry of 15 July 2013. I'm glad you have asked the question as it has given me the opportunity to reassure people that Free Shares and the Act you refer to are completely different. The Free Shares which are going to be offered on a flotation are nothing to do with the legislation you set out, which, as you say, has recently brought about a change to employment law which allows employers and individual employees to agree that certain employment rights are waived in return for shares in their employer.
The Free Shares are to be awarded under a longstanding, HMRC approved share plan known as a Share Incentive Plan. Further details have yet to be announced but it is clear that these shares will be free - under HMRC rules employees cannot be asked to give anything up, including employment rights, in order to receive Free Shares .
You therefore don't need to opt out of the Free Shares to keep your employment rights. Receiving Free Shares won't reduce your rights.
Kind Regards
Gary Redmond
Chief Executive Office
Royal Mail HQ
100 Victoria Embankment
LONDON
EC4Y 0HQ"

My reply:

"Dear Gary Redmond, [Royal Mail HQ]
Chief Executive Office
Royal Mail HQ
100 Victoria Embankment
LONDON
EC4Y 0HQ
Thank you for your reply, which I will share in full.
However I would also like to point out that "the Growth and Infrastructure Act 2013" employees do indeed give up rights to receive shares under the Act provided the shares are worth at least £2000.
So for clarity are you stating that under HRMC rules this "Share incentive scheme", in which we receive free shares, specifically rules out requiring "loss of rights" for shares and is separate from "the Growth and Infrastructure Act 2013"
I will wait for a reply from Vince Cable or Michael Fallon (via my Mp), which I will share with you.
Hopefully he will [also] confirm, in writing, that the "scheme" and the Act are separate."

[stephen500]

Dear Dave [Ward] and Billy [Hayes],


I have shared Gary Redmond's reply, as requested by yourself.

I have published Gary's response in full.

Just because RM state this is their position, does not mean I take this at face value.

I await a reply from Vince Cable or Michael Fallon (via my Mp) to have them confirm that we are not covered by the Act and that we are being given shares under the "share incentive scheme".

I would be grateful if you could share with us, when you have taken legal advice, the unions position on this.

Do the union concur with Gary Redmond that this is a "share incentive scheme" and the share issue is not covered by the act?

Or do you take a different view.

I will share your replies on the CWU facebook page. (national and branch).

Thank you.

[clashcityrocker]