Accepting shares means they can sack you whenever they like

[eian687]

the CWU should buy all share off us at face value then they can negotiate with themselves

[bogstandard]

has anyone else thought that if we are sold presumably senior managers will get also get more shares as part of their bonuses thus devaluing what was originally offered.

[Ratty]

The easy way to make sure you don't come under the terms of the Act would be to just use your right to "opt out" of receiving any shares that are offered.

I don't trust the union to be "all over this" any more than I trust them to not make agreements with royal mail that have more grey areas than black and white ones.

As far as I can see this Act is going to affect us if we meet the minimum requirements which is any employee that accepts shares worth a minimum of £2000 you are going to be subject to the terms of the Act. I don't see any text in the Act that states it has to be a new company etc just that you have to have agreed and accepted the shares and they are worth at least the minimum amount.

If this act is in force then I don't see how it can be avoided regardless of any agreement that is made to the contrary. Even if an agreement is made who would really gamble with their employment rights with a company that routinely breaks formal agreements? I certainly wouldn't that's for sure.

In a post-privatised royal mail do we really want to give up such important rights as the right to at least statutory redundancy pay (amongst many others) when the entire history of privatised public services shows massive job losses in the first several years following privatisation and a continuing decline in jobs pretty much constantly many years after that initial job cull.


I know I'd feel better knowing for sure my rights are secure so maybe the union should be getting some kind of written, legally binding agreement from the government that we will not be subject to the terms of the Act because without at least that safeguard I'll be happy to tell them to stick their shares.

[Visionary Man]

I am definitely opting out!

I'll be bringing this up in WTL too.

I'm even considering printing out 100's of copies of the legislation and handing it around at work. Like you said, I'm worried the CWU isn't doing enough to warn people too.

Can I actually set up my own personal picket line outside work without any hassle from the authorities dya reckon? :)

Geoff

[Acca Dacca]

I am definitely opting out!

I'll be bringing this up in WTL too.

I'm even considering printing out 100's of copies of the legislation and handing it around at work. Like you said, I'm worried the CWU isn't doing enough to warn people too.

Can I actually set up my own personal picket line outside work without any hassle from the authorities dya reckon? :)

Geoff

If you want sacked then yes.

[fishtank]

I'm even considering printing out 100's of copies of the legislation and handing it around at work.

Don't.
You'll end up in bother.
It isn't a "share for rights" scheme.
Even If it did turn out to be a "share for rights" scheme Royal Mail would have to declare that and pay for independent financial advice for everyone.
The share offer is bollocks but it's not bollocks because of this...it's just bollocks full stop.

[clashcityrocker]

Fishtank - it doesn't matter how many times you write "it isn't a shares for rights" scheme.
Visionary Man appears to be pursuing his own agenda of spreading misinformation and undermining confidence in the CWU.
He is talking shite , deliberately, and he knows it.

If I was a moderator I would ban him.
We have enough battles, real battles, ahead without people being encouraged to get sidetracked to start tilting at windmills.

[Visionary Man]

The last thing I want is to undermine the CWU...

What I want is my fellow colleagues to be informed of the change of their statutory rights before they accept the shares... If the cwu will do that then all praise to them.

If not then why not? Seems dodgy when its such an important issue.

Geoff

[stodgy88]

IF ,THE £2000,figure is correct and IF our terms and conditions are effected,it will not effect part timers as the shares will be pro-rata ,and be well under the £2000 mark.

[kingtubby]

It isn't a "share for rights" scheme.

Is there any information anywhere which definitively clarifies that?
Misinformation or otherwise, it seems sufficiently important enough to be cleared up.

[fishtank]

It isn't a "share for rights" scheme.

Is there any information anywhere which definitively clarifies that?

They have told us it's an HMRC approved Share Incentive Scheme.
That's a completely different thing.
I don't know how more definitive you can be.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

http://www.morganlewis.co.uk/index.cfm/ ... d7ca8623b3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For any acceptance to be valid, the employer must have provided the employee with a statement of particulars that sets out, among other things, the following:

The rights the employee shareholder gives up
The rights attached to the shares, e.g., voting, dividend, and ability to participate in the distribution of any surplus assets on winding up
Whether there are any restrictions on the transferability of the shares
Whether the employee shares are subject to drag-along rights or tag-along rights

So my reading of this is that despite my earlier concern over the shares, Fishtank as usual is absolutely correct. Without the statement, the ability to decline, and to be able to claim for legal advice - then privatisation shares won't come under this "Employee Shareholder" Legislation.

[Visionary Man]

That web page does indeed appear to suggest that they need to inform you of the change of rights.

I hope it is correct!

If it ends up being the case that accepting these shares will affect my legal rights. I will choose to refuse them.

Thanks for the info TBT

Geoff

[kingtubby]

It isn't a "share for rights" scheme.

Is there any information anywhere which definitively clarifies that?

They have told us it's an HMRC approved Share Incentive Scheme.
That's a completely different thing.
I don't know how more definitive you can be.

Thanks - that seems clear enough to me

[stephen500]

It isn't a "share for rights" scheme.

Is there any information anywhere which definitively clarifies that?

They have told us it's an HMRC approved Share Incentive Scheme.
That's a completely different thing.
I don't know how more definitive you can be.

Thanks - that seems clear enough to me

When I get a reply from Royal Mail that confirms this I will be happy.
Till then I reserve judgement and won't be taking shares until I am 100% sure it is not covered by this act.
Don't fancy losing £10000 compulsory redundancy or £47000 EVR for £2000 worth of shares.
Btw I still await a reply from Gary Redmond.