Hi Jackster
Surviving just on pay only when you sell, is just the half of the story for your Postmaster Boss, he/she will have a contract that will tie him/her up in knots, and the running of the PO side of his business will be dictated to him/her, you might start to get a POL person come to work in your Branch called a Financial Service Sales Advisor, who will mingle with the shoppers queuing in your Branch to try and sell them POL's financial service products.
Keep us up to date with the changes as they unfold in your "trial" Mains Branch.
Subbie
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The problem with PO Local
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subbie
- POST OFFICE
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JacksterD
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Re: The problem with PO Local
We've been a Main office for 6 months and so far it's just a straightforward Post Office with none of the Sales Specialists or anything. Can't imagine someone mingling with the queue - for a so-called 'Main' office it really is pretty small!subbie wrote:Hi Jackster
Surviving just on pay only when you sell, is just the half of the story for your Postmaster Boss, he/she will have a contract that will tie him/her up in knots, and the running of the PO side of his business will be dictated to him/her, you might start to get a POL person come to work in your Branch called a Financial Service Sales Advisor, who will mingle with the shoppers queuing in your Branch to try and sell them POL's financial service products.
Keep us up to date with the changes as they unfold in your "trial" Mains Branch.
Subbie
Full-time student, part-time sub Post Office counter clerk.
Can be found tweeting at https://twitter.com/#!/JacksterD
Can be found tweeting at https://twitter.com/#!/JacksterD
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nibbler
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- Posts: 21
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- Gender: Male
Re: The problem with PO Local
hi all, this seems like the relevant page to post this on.
so........ had a post office local now for 1year, boy is it a bad business model!
this model can only work in a city center environment.
bit of background first.
the previous sub postmaster had operated on full salary for about 30 years from the same premise , everything was fine.
he then closed about 2 years ago due to ill health. In early 2010 my partner and i took the shop on and after a lengthy application process we opened the post office later on in the year.
we asked during the application if there would be a salary and were told that we would be a post office local instead and everything is commission based , not great but we envisaged running the po local as a service to the community so we accepted but its not like we or the community were offered another option.
so suddenly a counter and many other aspects that had been fine for thirty years were millimeters out and apparently not ok. they tried and tried but i held firm . we persevered and then came the other requirements.
we were pushed into getting a romec alarm , thank god i said no way, nothing against romec but a alarm system for 2000 pounds to protect my money as we are self funding was not even remotely viable. we settled on a model for about 700 pounds in the end. still neither worthwhile or viable , but solely to meet the post office requirements .
Our field change adviser told us the cash holding amounts wrong and we upped our insurance to cover an imaginary figure.
all out of our pockets.
after all that we still carried on to provide the community with a post office, silly us
so our accountants got hold of us recently and told us something we already knew. that our business due to it seasonal location and being 99% second homes , cannot survive another winter unless all the hard work we put in comes to nothing and we start the 2012 summer season back at square one. we are so rural its sometimes unfunny,fuel costs, electricity, everything means that its financially more viable to close for 4-5 months in the year.
we phoned the helpline told a lady our intentions, no reply from anyone for 2 weeks. i phoned the person i needed to speak to myself. i told him the above , that its not viable in the winter months blah blah blah.
he phoned back several days later , his and the post offices response was that they are unwilling to let the post office close because there primary goal is to provide service 52 weeks of the year. so we need to hand in our resignation and give 3 months notice so they can remove a computer. they intend to run an outreach service like 1 day a week or something instead, which is not cost free , will make no money and is a big inconvenience for the residents and tourists in the viable summer months.
i frankly refused to hand in my resignation as i don't feel resigning will do any good, and i feel that they want me to resign. he cited that i would be breaching my contract , but during the interview process which was recorded i stated very clearly that i would always have the post office open as long as the shop was open. so logically if i shut my shop for winter the post office will too.
The bottom line is, we provided everything, we self fund we pay all the bills, we have to pay for the bloody consumables, inks etc . we offered the ailing post office a chance to keep a branch open that was otherwise destined to be turned in to holiday lets. we put up with the incompetence of most of the people that has dealt with us bar one, she is a true hero for the post office , and obviously undervalued.
We get nothing in return , and the fact that we cant offer a full post office service means we lose return trade to our shop as well! I don't understand why the post office are willing to pay someone else for their time to open an outreach post office when we have always asked for a salary (as we always knew this would be more viable for opening in the winters) and we already have all the equipment and are established as a post office local, why then shut down, it makes no sense??
i am stuck as i don't no what to do, i feel that if a major boss actually heard what is being proposed he might intervene as it obvious what the correct financial avenue is as well as the bad publicity something of this nature will generate .
the problem with the post office is the communication or lack of. and there are many people working behind the scenes who have no idea what they are doing, but somehow have got a job and will cling to it for dear life, never mind they hinder the whole operation start to finish.
and they deserve a salary?
so........ had a post office local now for 1year, boy is it a bad business model!
this model can only work in a city center environment.
bit of background first.
the previous sub postmaster had operated on full salary for about 30 years from the same premise , everything was fine.
he then closed about 2 years ago due to ill health. In early 2010 my partner and i took the shop on and after a lengthy application process we opened the post office later on in the year.
we asked during the application if there would be a salary and were told that we would be a post office local instead and everything is commission based , not great but we envisaged running the po local as a service to the community so we accepted but its not like we or the community were offered another option.
so suddenly a counter and many other aspects that had been fine for thirty years were millimeters out and apparently not ok. they tried and tried but i held firm . we persevered and then came the other requirements.
we were pushed into getting a romec alarm , thank god i said no way, nothing against romec but a alarm system for 2000 pounds to protect my money as we are self funding was not even remotely viable. we settled on a model for about 700 pounds in the end. still neither worthwhile or viable , but solely to meet the post office requirements .
Our field change adviser told us the cash holding amounts wrong and we upped our insurance to cover an imaginary figure.
all out of our pockets.
after all that we still carried on to provide the community with a post office, silly us
so our accountants got hold of us recently and told us something we already knew. that our business due to it seasonal location and being 99% second homes , cannot survive another winter unless all the hard work we put in comes to nothing and we start the 2012 summer season back at square one. we are so rural its sometimes unfunny,fuel costs, electricity, everything means that its financially more viable to close for 4-5 months in the year.
we phoned the helpline told a lady our intentions, no reply from anyone for 2 weeks. i phoned the person i needed to speak to myself. i told him the above , that its not viable in the winter months blah blah blah.
he phoned back several days later , his and the post offices response was that they are unwilling to let the post office close because there primary goal is to provide service 52 weeks of the year. so we need to hand in our resignation and give 3 months notice so they can remove a computer. they intend to run an outreach service like 1 day a week or something instead, which is not cost free , will make no money and is a big inconvenience for the residents and tourists in the viable summer months.
i frankly refused to hand in my resignation as i don't feel resigning will do any good, and i feel that they want me to resign. he cited that i would be breaching my contract , but during the interview process which was recorded i stated very clearly that i would always have the post office open as long as the shop was open. so logically if i shut my shop for winter the post office will too.
The bottom line is, we provided everything, we self fund we pay all the bills, we have to pay for the bloody consumables, inks etc . we offered the ailing post office a chance to keep a branch open that was otherwise destined to be turned in to holiday lets. we put up with the incompetence of most of the people that has dealt with us bar one, she is a true hero for the post office , and obviously undervalued.
We get nothing in return , and the fact that we cant offer a full post office service means we lose return trade to our shop as well! I don't understand why the post office are willing to pay someone else for their time to open an outreach post office when we have always asked for a salary (as we always knew this would be more viable for opening in the winters) and we already have all the equipment and are established as a post office local, why then shut down, it makes no sense??
i am stuck as i don't no what to do, i feel that if a major boss actually heard what is being proposed he might intervene as it obvious what the correct financial avenue is as well as the bad publicity something of this nature will generate .
the problem with the post office is the communication or lack of. and there are many people working behind the scenes who have no idea what they are doing, but somehow have got a job and will cling to it for dear life, never mind they hinder the whole operation start to finish.
and they deserve a salary?
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obiwanknobe
- POST OFFICE
- Posts: 58
- Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 11:05
- Gender: Male
Re: The problem with PO Local
Hi Nibbler
Thanks for posting this. Gives credence to my theory that PO Local is a terminal proposition. Once you close your doors on it for the very reasons you mention what businessman worth their salt is going to take it on under the present contract arrangements.
But power to the people. I owned a similar rural PO once where the core payment alone kept the shop open during the winter months and therefore provided the community with the service they wanted (but didn't use of course). These people will help you if you start a campaign as will your local MP (he has to). Don't ask the NFSP as these 'local lovers' have landed you in this mess with their less than bright ideas. Good luck if you decide to fight it and let us know how you get on.
I would be interested to hear POLs argument for not varying the hours during the winter months - surely a lot of rural shops do that?
ATB
Obi
Thanks for posting this. Gives credence to my theory that PO Local is a terminal proposition. Once you close your doors on it for the very reasons you mention what businessman worth their salt is going to take it on under the present contract arrangements.
But power to the people. I owned a similar rural PO once where the core payment alone kept the shop open during the winter months and therefore provided the community with the service they wanted (but didn't use of course). These people will help you if you start a campaign as will your local MP (he has to). Don't ask the NFSP as these 'local lovers' have landed you in this mess with their less than bright ideas. Good luck if you decide to fight it and let us know how you get on.
I would be interested to hear POLs argument for not varying the hours during the winter months - surely a lot of rural shops do that?
ATB
Obi
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capitalbiker
- POST OFFICE
- Posts: 103
- Joined: 23 Oct 2010, 21:56
- Gender: Male
Re: The problem with PO Local
have to disagree with Obi on one point, Let the Fed know that this 'model' is broke too,, the real problem as Nibbler points out is POL, until that's fixed there's no hope for the network in any style of office.
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obiwanknobe
- POST OFFICE
- Posts: 58
- Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 11:05
- Gender: Male
Re: The problem with PO Local
Mr or Mrs CB
The lack of recognition by POL of the fact that they are the main part of the problem indicates quite clearly that they are the main part of the problem.
Nibbler
Just found this from a recent advert for a PO Essential.
Post Office Essentials Operator
Post Office Ltd is looking for a retail partner with an attractive and significant retail operation from which a selected range of Post Office products and services can be delivered across the retail counter.
The retail store, ideally a convenience or large CTN will offer extended opening hours and the operator will be happy to offer Post Office products and services for the full retail opening hours.
I hardly think POL are in a position to determine a stores opening hours. And what is interesting in this particular ad is that it is the first one I have seen where no opening hours are detailed as in 9 - 5.30 etc
May the post be with you
Obi
The lack of recognition by POL of the fact that they are the main part of the problem indicates quite clearly that they are the main part of the problem.
Nibbler
Just found this from a recent advert for a PO Essential.
Post Office Essentials Operator
Post Office Ltd is looking for a retail partner with an attractive and significant retail operation from which a selected range of Post Office products and services can be delivered across the retail counter.
The retail store, ideally a convenience or large CTN will offer extended opening hours and the operator will be happy to offer Post Office products and services for the full retail opening hours.
I hardly think POL are in a position to determine a stores opening hours. And what is interesting in this particular ad is that it is the first one I have seen where no opening hours are detailed as in 9 - 5.30 etc
May the post be with you
Obi
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nibbler
- POST OFFICE
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 12 Sep 2011, 15:51
- Gender: Male
Re: The problem with PO Local
thanks for the reply guys, very cool thank you!
i am thinking this can go 2 ways,
1st, i can resign, wait 3 months lose a lot of money in bills and get rid of the post office for ever (very apealing)
2nd, i wont resign on principle as this is what they are pushing for, i shut thw shop and post office on the 15th october and reopen on the 17 march as planned,
what can pol do, the contracts manager who is a tit , keeps on about a breech of contract if i do this , but how is it a breech of contract , if the shops open then the post office will be open as was recorded by him in our interview, and vice versa.
he is also threatening me with a fine from pol, how legal would that be , how could it be implemented, how much etc?
what do yuo lot thinkwould happen if i just closed on the 15th oct and reopend on the 17th of march, i have already phoned the helpline over 2 months agao letting them know i was closing during these times, what can they do , anything ?
i am thinking this can go 2 ways,
1st, i can resign, wait 3 months lose a lot of money in bills and get rid of the post office for ever (very apealing)
2nd, i wont resign on principle as this is what they are pushing for, i shut thw shop and post office on the 15th october and reopen on the 17 march as planned,
what can pol do, the contracts manager who is a tit , keeps on about a breech of contract if i do this , but how is it a breech of contract , if the shops open then the post office will be open as was recorded by him in our interview, and vice versa.
he is also threatening me with a fine from pol, how legal would that be , how could it be implemented, how much etc?
what do yuo lot thinkwould happen if i just closed on the 15th oct and reopend on the 17th of march, i have already phoned the helpline over 2 months agao letting them know i was closing during these times, what can they do , anything ?
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nibbler
- POST OFFICE
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 12 Sep 2011, 15:51
- Gender: Male
Re: The problem with PO Local
me again ,
so have been speaking to royal mail postie this morning, they have no issues with us closing for winter , it purley a mater of de activating a barcode, takes 10 mins, no problem.
the problem resides with a moron who is a contracts manager, his whole point revolves around the fact that the post office require a service 52 weeks of the year. funny how the post office was shut for 2 years before we took it on, no outreach service was provided then, so that blows the old 52 weeks viewpoint out the water. alongside this we have 2 post ofices in either direction who are on salary who do the exaxt same job as us within 3 miles that will be open all winter. so it all comes down to one or two people being difficult on purpose trying to hold me to my contract.
heres the funny part, are you ready
so first off my interview was recorded and i was very careful to make a point of saying that if the shop was open then the post office will be open . hence when we shut the shop on the 15th oct natrully the post office will shut, and seeing that i make on average about 30 pounds if lucky a month from the post office , how is it viable?
so have been speaking to royal mail postie this morning, they have no issues with us closing for winter , it purley a mater of de activating a barcode, takes 10 mins, no problem.
the problem resides with a moron who is a contracts manager, his whole point revolves around the fact that the post office require a service 52 weeks of the year. funny how the post office was shut for 2 years before we took it on, no outreach service was provided then, so that blows the old 52 weeks viewpoint out the water. alongside this we have 2 post ofices in either direction who are on salary who do the exaxt same job as us within 3 miles that will be open all winter. so it all comes down to one or two people being difficult on purpose trying to hold me to my contract.
heres the funny part, are you ready
so first off my interview was recorded and i was very careful to make a point of saying that if the shop was open then the post office will be open . hence when we shut the shop on the 15th oct natrully the post office will shut, and seeing that i make on average about 30 pounds if lucky a month from the post office , how is it viable?
Last edited by nibbler on 20 Sep 2011, 15:30, edited 1 time in total.
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obiwanknobe
- POST OFFICE
- Posts: 58
- Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 11:05
- Gender: Male
Re: The problem with PO Local
Hi
Under the standard contract (not essentials) if you shut up shop for any reason without giving 3 months notice then POL can try and recover the costs from you for the provision of a replacement outlet for the unexpired portion of the 3 month notice period.
I think you will find there are many examples of the larger multiples ignoring this and shutting anyway and POL don't go after them because they have other outlets. There is also the example where you might be renting or leasing premises on a one month contract so how could they insist on a three month one?
Take the example I posted above of a new essentials where there are no standard or core hours specified only normal retail opening hours. I think you should stand your ground but consult a solicitor to make sure of your position.
ATB
Obi
Under the standard contract (not essentials) if you shut up shop for any reason without giving 3 months notice then POL can try and recover the costs from you for the provision of a replacement outlet for the unexpired portion of the 3 month notice period.
I think you will find there are many examples of the larger multiples ignoring this and shutting anyway and POL don't go after them because they have other outlets. There is also the example where you might be renting or leasing premises on a one month contract so how could they insist on a three month one?
Take the example I posted above of a new essentials where there are no standard or core hours specified only normal retail opening hours. I think you should stand your ground but consult a solicitor to make sure of your position.
ATB
Obi
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nibbler
- POST OFFICE
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- Joined: 12 Sep 2011, 15:51
- Gender: Male
Re: The problem with PO Local
hi
so does the fact i did give 3 months notice when i phoned the helpline , and failed to get a reply mean anything
so does the fact i did give 3 months notice when i phoned the helpline , and failed to get a reply mean anything
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obiwanknobe
- POST OFFICE
- Posts: 58
- Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 11:05
- Gender: Male
Re: The problem with PO Local
Hi
It has to be in writing. You can withdraw the resignation at any time though.
MTFBWY
Obi
It has to be in writing. You can withdraw the resignation at any time though.
MTFBWY
Obi
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nibbler
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Re: The problem with PO Local
hi sorry should of gone into more detail
i phoned up as per the normal procedure to inform them i will be closing from this date to that date.
therefore would i be in breech of contract if i shut?
and also because of the unsigned contract that they are still awaiting
there was talk of fines ? how are they implemented and how does that work
i phoned up as per the normal procedure to inform them i will be closing from this date to that date.
therefore would i be in breech of contract if i shut?
and also because of the unsigned contract that they are still awaiting
there was talk of fines ? how are they implemented and how does that work
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obiwanknobe
- POST OFFICE
- Posts: 58
- Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 11:05
- Gender: Male
Re: The problem with PO Local
Hi
What you could do is to send them a letter informing them that you will be altering your shop hours over the winter period and could you(POL) advise customers and branch finder that during this period your opening hours will be from 9.00am to 9.01am.
You wouldn't be in breach of your contract if the contract did not specifically state the number of hours you had to be opened per week.
I suspect that under those circumstances POL will give you 3 months notice!!
As you have worked for several months without a contract I would assume that you were legally committed to the contract signed or not but a solicitor would best advise you on that one.
There are no fines just reimbursement of expenditure by POL in providing a replacement service within your notice period.
IMHO DYOR
Obi
What you could do is to send them a letter informing them that you will be altering your shop hours over the winter period and could you(POL) advise customers and branch finder that during this period your opening hours will be from 9.00am to 9.01am.
You wouldn't be in breach of your contract if the contract did not specifically state the number of hours you had to be opened per week.
I suspect that under those circumstances POL will give you 3 months notice!!
As you have worked for several months without a contract I would assume that you were legally committed to the contract signed or not but a solicitor would best advise you on that one.
There are no fines just reimbursement of expenditure by POL in providing a replacement service within your notice period.
IMHO DYOR
Obi
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nibbler
- POST OFFICE
- Posts: 21
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- Gender: Male
Re: The problem with PO Local
thanks for all your help
reimbursement of expenditure by POL in providing a replacement service within your notice period.
how does this work , how would they get a penny from me?
reimbursement of expenditure by POL in providing a replacement service within your notice period.
how does this work , how would they get a penny from me?
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nibbler
- POST OFFICE
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 12 Sep 2011, 15:51
- Gender: Male
Re: The problem with PO Local
or if they continue to piss me off can i get myself fired?