PRISON STAFF STRIKE

[IWW Fellow Worker]

ive a mate who works as a warder and the funny thing is 90 per cent of them say they are innocent,the rest like to boast about what they have done

Yes, I'm sure they do. It's when the campaign gathers a bit of momentum like for instance the Birmingham Six, Stefan Kischo ot Johnny Kamara that the screws turn up the heat. That's when the visitors are turned away or the VO's go missing or the mail ends up being tampered with and items like books of stamps or stationary go missing from it. Still, aspate of P58's from supporters to Full Sutton or Walton usually stops that for a while.

[Carnoustie]

Under a different society in which working people decide what's going on, we could provide decent jobs, pay, training and working conditions so most people who turn to crime now wouldn't commit crimes and feel as though they have an interest in society. There'll still be a need for prisons though, even under a socialist society, I definitely wouldn't want paedophiles or other dangerous criminals on the streets. However, thanks to New Labour, a lot of the criminals in prisons are drug addicts or people with psychiatric problems. They need medical help, but Labour just wants to cut back on health services, because they put money before people. And still, the major trade unions in Britain give money to the Labour Party. Madness.

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk

The trouble with your argument is that it's extremely naive.
People don't 'turn to crime' because there aren't any decent jobs about, they are often people who feel that life owes them a free ride, and rather than work for a living, they'll steal from others. In recent years, we have had lots of economic migrants coming here from eastern europe, finding work and contributing to the economy through their taxes. Were jobs created specially for them ? No, they are doing jobs that aren't being done by work-shy dole scroungers or people who CHOOSE to engage in criminal activity.

And don't get me started about re-offending rates

Jafferpants is right. Tougher sentences DO act as a deterrent - the statistics prove this ! Bring back capital punishment, I say. I hear the re-offending rates for murderers in US states that have the death penalty are very low

[DGP1]

Capital punishment has never stopped any murderers because most don't think they'll get caught or they don't care if they get caught.

[Spartacus]

SPARTACUS IT THAT ATTITUDE THAT GOT THIS COUNTRY IN THE STATE IT'S NOW IN. I PREFER FACT'S RATHER THAN OPINION'S SO HERE'S ONE IN ANSWER TO YOUR STATEMENT " PRISONS DONT WORK". THE RE-OFFENDING RATE FOR PEOPLE GIVEN LESS THAN FIVE YEARS IS APP- 80%. THE RE-OFFENDING RATE FOR PEOPLE GIVEN MORE THAN FIVE YEAR'S IS APP-38%. YOU DO THE MATHS. THIS COUNTRY IS GOING DOWN THE PAN QUICKER THAN MY s**t AFTER A CURRY UNLESS SOMETHING IS DONE SOON I DREAD TO THINK WHERE IT WILL END UP.

Two things,you've got a caps lock button on your keyboard,ya wanna try using it,it seems like you're shouting.

Secondly, as I've said I don't want to get into a debate about the issue but facts and figures can be used to win any argument,see RM profits.

If you're really interested in the issue,here's a few sites that may change your views

http://www.howardleague.org/

http://www.alternatives2prison.ik.com/

http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/


One more thing, it's not people with attitudes like me that have put the country in the position it finds itself in, it's quite the opposite, it's people who say things like "there's no such thing as society" who have got us where we are today. There's a growing underclass and the divide between those who have and those who have not is growing enormously. None of these things are my doing, I do my best to work against these things.

[BELIAL]

Do we think babies are born with criminal intentions, or maybe s**t happens,life ,society stuff all acts to mould our responses and some cope better than others?

Bit of an emotive one but statistically the majority of violent offenders and child molesters have been victims of violence and abuse themselves. So the system takes the cheap option and bangs them up with little treatment and the cycle continues. Still they rarely intrude on the gated secure communities of the wealthy.

[ROCKY]

not prisons but a close second, remember when care in the community replaced the old institutions,theres probably a pc name for them but i dont remember what it is, there were a series of horrific actions by the people who were released,murder rape child molestation etc,if there were no deterent then nothing would stop certain kinds of people copying whatever horrors holywood could turn out next

[BELIAL]

not prisons but a close second, remember when care in the community replaced the old institutions,theres probably a pc name for them but i dont remember what it is, there were a series of horrific actions by the people who were released,murder rape child molestation etc,if there were no deterent then nothing would stop certain kinds of people copying whatever horrors holywood could turn out next

It's called cut price care ,but don't worry the mentally ill generally can't afford to live in Chelsea or Henley

[billypants]

All we need is for a few more UNIONS within the public sector to get their acts together and ALL call a NATIONAL 24 HOUR strike....TOGETHER, we could have a greater impact, getting the Gov. to listen, 2% aint enough....Inflation is DOUBLE that !

I'm lovin the debate about the rights and wrongs of our justice system but surely this is the bit about this action that should really be interesting us . . . . . . an all out national strike, or just the threat of it, could give us more leverage and support than we've had throughout this campaign . . . . Gordon Brown will want an election sooner or later and he won't want this hanging over him when he calls it . . . . workers of the country unite

[BELIAL]

All we need is for a few more UNIONS within the public sector to get their acts together and ALL call a NATIONAL 24 HOUR strike....TOGETHER, we could have a greater impact, getting the Gov. to listen, 2% aint enough....Inflation is DOUBLE that !

I'm lovin the debate about the rights and wrongs of our justice system but surely this is the bit about this action that should really be interesting us . . . . . . an all out national strike, or just the threat of it, could give us more leverage and support than we've had throughout this campaign . . . . Gordon Brown will want an election sooner or later and he won't want this hanging over him when he calls it . . . . workers of the country unite

[Wild Cat]

I am shocked at the amount of incidents such as the shooting of the 11 year old boy in Liverpool and one way to reduce youth crime would be to bring back compulsory National Service but only for young people convicted of crime of a serious or violent nature such as possession of a fire arm.

The army will soon straighten out some of the teenage tearaways and stop them blighting communities up and down the country.

[BELIAL]

I am rapidly losing the will to live.

Knee jerk proto faschist the worlds black and white comments , maybe we deserve what we get . I spot loads of potential managers. Has thinking gone out of fashion?

[catch]

There's two issues as billy pants pointed out - whether screws are worth "supporting" when there's loads of people locked up for not paying TV license, defaulting on loans etc. etc., and whether the strike will change the balance of forces in the rest of the public sector.

The first issue is worth discussing on its own terms, but it doesn't really matter for the second which is the immediate impact of this strike on others. Whether you think prison officers are good are bad (I'd say bad), them going on strike, and potentially winning, is going to kick the 2% crap out of the water and call the whole thing into question.

Also, because it's unlawful whatever they do, they don't have the option of fannying about with one day stoppages or even rolling strikes (or the endless consultations and other s**t that Unison is pulliing at the moment) since the risk is the same whatever happens. As such, because of their unique position (and a bit less contradictory than the police who will called in to break strikes as soon as they reach a certain point cf. miners, wapping), they could bypass a lot of the usual crap and get straight into a head on collision with their employers. It's worth remembering this isn't just about pay either - there's been a big increase in violence towards them as well.

Someone posted this on another discussion about it, also interesting and shows many of the contradictions. The Prison Officer equivalent of riot police were sent in elsewhere to quell a rooftop protest as the strike started elsewhere:

General secretary Brian Caton said that all the striking prison officers returned to work last night after the union's executive decided to call off the action.
Prisoners in Leeds stood and applauded the staff, while in Chelmsford, Essex, inmates shook the hands of returning officers, said Mr Caton.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/stor ... 00,00.html

[KawasakiKid]

I am rapidly losing the will to live.

Knee jerk proto faschist the worlds black and white comments , maybe we deserve what we get . I spot loads of potential managers. Has thinking gone out of fashion?

:lfo :cfo And F***K OFF Gordy --------- BELIAL !! can't help but notice the 'drift' (for want of a better word) of your posts. They seem kind of fuzzy, lot's of smoke and mirrors. You don't seem to make a direct statement. Take the above quote for instance, is that a comment relating to Wild Cat's post directly above yours? You don't make it plain. Tell me if it is and then I'll post back to you.-----------A KWIZZICAL KWAK

[BELIAL]

The answer is yes Kwizzi K

[KawasakiKid]

The answer is yes Kwizzi K

:lfo :cfo How's your dream society going to function BEL? You don't seem to mind 11 yr olds getting killed, as Wild Cat offered his thoughts on, or am I presuming too much about you? Before you reveal your inner self (which hopefully you will now do) I guess as your inquisitor I should post my thoughts on how a modern society should work. I'm old and wrinkly BEL. I was a child in the fifties and sixties and my parents didn't have any fears about me getting shot when I went out to play with my mates. I wasn't 'FERAL' and neither was any other kid I came into contact with. Society changes daily I recognise that BEL. Has it changed for the better? Well yes in some ways but decidedly not in others. How old are you BEL? Have you ever lived in a society where kids walk the streets without fear? What about getting shot in your own home by your elder brother who was fooling around with a gun he'd found coz' some adult had in a drug induced haze had left it lying around? What do you intend to do about that BEL in your social NIRVANA, coz prisons and faschist prison officers won't exist in your society will they? How are you going to balance things up because everything has to balance otherwise society will topple over. How's it going to work BEL? Don't post anymore FUZZY far out, off the planet socialism attempting to belittle the likes of Wild Cat and definitely The KawasakiKid until you tell us how you're going to sort it all out. That goes for you to Spartacus and IWFF or what the F**K you call yourself