What we waiting for???

[heathrow86]

To be honest what choice has the union got? The only tool they have got is a strike ballot. Just suppose they do an ia ballot and it's a yes vote, what then? ok we may go out, but would we get public support, seeing as other companies are shedding staff, would the Government step in, well they want rid of us anyway.

So who would help us then??

[dvbuk55]

As for renegotiating the agreement isn't that exactly what Royal Mail want?

I thought Dingos admission that IWT,Geo Route,needed a good look at/scrapped/whatever, was a step in the right
direction, whats your take on how to sort out present future revisions etc

Saying all that whatever comes out of any meetings/change from HQ /Ballots/IA i cant say im getting that lucky feeling so to speak,i thought it was the last chance saloon in 2009 and most seqels in the movies are never as good as the original Last Chance Saloon 2!

You're right Dane, it is certainly an avenue that does need revisiting, the fly in the ointment is that the very same people are going down memory lane.

There was never any doubt that there was a need to modernise, and as dingo pointed out many times, RM has 10,000 vehicles and WSMs et al and so we had to move forward................the snag of course was that because the equipment had already been acquired then the course was set as to how that route would be taken.

The Titanic was full steam ahead just as the modernisation plan was...............and guess what?

The plan was flawed, the changes were never going to be made at the pace required, the assumption that there would be savings (despite the fact that Higson assured DW that revisions would not be based on savings) proved to be ill founded, The three year plan was either too long or too short depending on your view of the political situation at the time. IMO it was too long for several reasons but the main reasons being Tories = privatisation, pay rises set for a three year span without any knowledge of what the financial situation would be.

There has been a reported 700 revisions but exactly how many of those have followed the DM and WSM 2010 and Beyond Modernisation Plan and how many have been "self starters" and "table top". This truly has been a step too far and it has gone wrong, it is too late to go back it is simply a question of rescheduling the pace at which it can be implemented and those revisions that have gone wrong being rectified with realistic targets being set by those people who are actually doing the job and not by some computer program.

[dvbuk55]

To be honest what choice has the union got? The only tool they have got is a strike ballot. Just suppose they do an ia ballot and it's a yes vote, what then? ok we may go out, but would we get public support, seeing as other companies are shedding staff, would the Government step in, well they want rid of us anyway.

So who would help us then??

Roger Poole and Brendan Barber, those stalwarts who helped us through the modernisation plan in the first place. Remember they were going to police the whole thing and arbitrate any problem areas....................well I'd say they've got a shovelful of crap at the moment

[hatetheboss]

But there is no plan B.

[robinhood]

There comes a time in any relationship when you either move forward and attempt to see whether the other side are going to change or you accept you can never have another agreement .

Your words dingo,not mine...
Where are we now in this process?
The membership are not stupid.They are aware that the very people who told them they had to trust Royal Mail or accept that they could never have another agreement are the same people who are now telling them that Royal Mail are not to be trusted...can you not at least see how that looks to an ordinary member?

The union were warned that the vague promises built into the BTA would not hold up when faced with a company preparing for privatisation and backed by a Tory Government,they were warned that the agreement only commited Royal Mail to try to avoid Compulsory Redundancies,they were warned that most of the commitments had more holes than a string vest and most importantly they were warned that,if they didn't get what they wanted they would simply pull out.

Now what you could say is that all of this may have happened without an agreement and it probably would have but....the membership,especially in deliveries were asked to accept a lot for BTA like longer saturdays,later starts,D2D payments going and shift payments going and these now appear to have been traded away for the proverbial handful of magic beans...
Now if they were taken from us against our will we could fight for them but to be traded away leaves us with nothing but the memories...and a sour taste.

You can blame the employer,the members,the government,whoever but the ultimate responsibility for splitting the union,breeding member disgust and apathy and weakening this union to the point where our employer simply treats us with contempt...i'm afraid belongs at the door of 150 The Broadway.

errr was it not voted in by the union members
you blame the union leaders all the time, but apathetic members are to blame, those that couldnt be arsed to vote, those that dont engage in the keep the post public campaign, those that use cars, those that ghost overtime,and the muppets that gotta make time.

[fishtank]

errr was it not voted in by the union members
you blame the union leaders all the time, but apathetic members are to blame, those that couldnt be arsed to vote, those that dont engage in the keep the post public campaign, those that use cars, those that ghost overtime,and the muppets that gotta make time.

That apathy doesn't arrive from nowhere robin.
Poor organisation breeds apathy,poor deals breed apathy,lack of communication breeds apathy,lack of engagement breeds apathy.
The membership were not apathetic when they delivered an overwhelming yes vote the last time the union called for industrial action.
At the end of the day apathy suited the leadership when it came to an acceptance of an obviously flawed deal.
Unfortunately it's the last thing they need now...but it may be too late.

[robinhood]

errr was it not voted in by the union members
you blame the union leaders all the time, but apathetic members are to blame, those that couldnt be arsed to vote, those that dont engage in the keep the post public campaign, those that use cars, those that ghost overtime,and the muppets that gotta make time.

At the end of the day apathy suited the leadership when it came to an acceptance of an obviously flawed deal.
quote]

hindsight is a wonderful thing.
d2d essential to retaining hours,jobs.
shift allowance consolidated, pay rise, payments for stages of modernisation, up till now no compuls redundancies.
sound like a manager but i am wat you would call an activist, demos, petitons to no 10, get sick of lack of involement of membership who leave it to thier reps and leadership to carry the fight.
if you dont like your reps then change em.
sorry for rant

[fishtank]

hindsight is a wonderful thing.

It's not hindsight at least in my case.
I said the same thing before the deal was accepted.
I said it was a poor deal that Royal Mail would walk all over,i said it would split the membership and lead to member disengagement and apathy and i said that if the CWU had to call on the membership again we may be in trouble.
If you are a real activist robin and not a part-time would-be politician you will realise that writing off and blaming your own people even with their flaws is never a wise move.
Nothing happens in isolation,everything has it's causes and effects.

[heathrow86]

Trouble was people only saw the financial aspects of the deal, the bonuses etc. Thats how the deal got in.

[dvbuk55]

Well I was all for the deal and I won't have a bad word said against it

[fishtank]

Trouble was people only saw the financial aspects of the deal, the bonuses etc. Thats how the deal got in.

The bonuses and lump sums didn't need to be there.
Who put them there and why?

[spoodoo]

The only reason some guys voted for it in our office was ,,,oh its gonna get through regardless ,oh and the mouldy carrot they dangled ..shakes my head .

[andy2007]

Trouble was people only saw the financial aspects of the deal, the bonuses etc. Thats how the deal got in.

The bonuses and lump sums didn't need to be there.
Who put them there and why?

Those who were counting on people not reading the whole thing before voting. Whether that's because they couldn't be bothered, or couldn't get access to it.

[Tuffers-1875]

This is my first post on here, and I'd like to say that you fishtank talk a lot of sense.

I've been in the job for 24 years, was a unit rep for 11 years. I'm totally fed up with the job now. All I want to do now is leave this crap job, but there's funk all else out there. I fear that the only way out for me is in a coffin. The job is killing me slowly. I've forsaken a social life nearly all of my life, I'm permanently tired, I'm always skint!

I wish I worked harder at school!

Life's a bitch and so is RM.

My take is this; RM will shaft us at every opportunity, so I will make time and funk off home early for as long as I can get away with it. When it all comes crashing down then it's time to re-evaluate my life.

This is probably the wrong thread, but hey, who gives a toss any more?