Unions pledge to resist Royal Mail privatisation

[BELIAL]

Well if you haven't worked it out by now Belle you probably never will.

[belle smith]

Well if you haven't worked it out by now Belle you probably never will.

feel free to give me a clue. if you mean vote them out, i agree but i had asked you what do you do in the meantime?

[fishtank]

what do you do in the meantime?

...and that will be a very long meantime.
Voting them out is an ideal and worthy solution...if you have replacements in mind that are better than those in place...and you can trust them...and you can get them selected.....and you can get the members to vote for them.
Don't get me wrong it's still an idea with merit....just don't expect it to be easy...or to happen overnight...or indeed any time soon.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Perhaps we could take a leaf out of the "Brewsters Millions" film and spoil the balot papers when they arrive

[belle smith]

Perhaps we could take a leaf out of the "Brewsters Millions" film and spoil the balot papers when they arrive

idon't think they would care though.

[BELIAL]

Well if you haven't worked it out by now Belle you probably never will.

feel free to give me a clue. if you mean vote them out, i agree but i had asked you what do you do in the meantime?

okay ,heres a few. "what you give is what you get" ; No such thing as a free lunch; you don't get owt for nowt; something for nothing .

Meantime has expired ,there is no grace period , go for it or forever rue your indecision .

[belle smith]

Well if you haven't worked it out by now Belle you probably never will.

feel free to give me a clue. if you mean vote them out, i agree but i had asked you what do you do in the meantime?

okay ,heres a few. "what you give is what you get" ; No such thing as a free lunch; you don't get owt for nowt; something for nothing .

Meantime has expired ,there is no grace period , go for it or forever rue your indecision .

What i meant by meantime was, if we are balloted in the near future (which seems possable) do you not think, on past recent experience, that CWU leaders will talk a good game, to get us out, sign a s**t agreement then tell us how great it is.

Would that not put some doubt in your mind about voteing yes to strike?

Put another way what did we gain the last 2 times? how would this be diffrent?
Belial had i knowan the agreement that we were going to get last time round, in addvance, i would have voted no to strike ballot at the outset. as it is i voted to strike. Then voted to reject the deal but was in the minority.

[Martin Walsh]

So tell me Belle whats the alternative ? Earlier in the tread you told me I was bluffing or not telling the truth about the pension issue. However within the bill documents its states quite clearly about the pension issues. If TNT take over do you really believe they will keep our pensions as a care scheme ?

[belle smith]

So tell me Belle whats the alternative ? Earlier in the tread you told me I was bluffing or not telling the truth about the pension issue. However within the bill documents its states quite clearly about the pension issues. If TNT take over do you really believe they will keep our pensions as a care scheme ?

Not what i said dingo.
Just to recap, you said the pension scheme would be "wound up", which i said was bullshit. But you clearly didn't, and still may not understand what that means.
The bill does not propose that the scheme is "wound up".

Would TNT keep our pension scheme in it's current form? probably not. Who says TNT are going to buy RM though.

Why are we looking at strike action over a theoretical possability to change to our pensions, when very recently an actually change went by without a strike ballot, inspite of the fact that was breaking a pledge to the members? BTW we are not all currently in a CARE scheme, me and you are the new members are in a DC scheme.

Okay dingo i don't want to be privitised or have further declines to our pay and conditions, but i don't trust the leadership of the union.
If the union got a mandate for strike and were offerd a deal on the shelfing of privitisation in return for changing our pension scheme, getting rid of the CARE scheme and moving us all onto a DC scheme, would the senior union members accept and recommend it to the members? i think they would.

I did also mention something regarding Sampson and Browne being complicit in the misrepresentaion of the facts regarding our pension scheme, "the trebeling of the deficit in RMPP". but you don't want to know about that do you.

There is a lot going on behind the scenes so hopefully it wont come to a ballot. But if it does and if them members back the union again then what are you going to do ?

In answer to the question that you posed at the end of your first post in this thread.......Strike! i won't be voting in favour though.
and some in my office who have always went on evrey strike in the past say they wont be striking this time.

[BELIAL]

.Strike! i won't be voting in favour though.
and some in my office who have always went on evrey strike in the past say they wont be striking this time.

That's a shame Belle, lets hope the majority don't feel the same way. If they do then we will all end up near the minimum wage (if it still exists) job losses will multiply ,and it's a fair bet that within five years the best you could look forward to is a PT contract for a three day week delivery service, can't imagine your pension terms will improve either. Not the sort of future most folks I know would willingly accept

[dvbuk55]

.Strike! i won't be voting in favour though.
and some in my office who have always went on evrey strike in the past say they wont be striking this time.

That's a shame Belle, lets hope the majority don't feel the same way. If they do then we will all end up near the minimum wage (if it still exists) job losses will multiply ,and it's a fair bet that within five years the best you could look forward to is a PT contract for a three day week delivery service, can't imagine your pension terms will improve either. Not the sort of future most folks I know would willingly accept

Well you make a lot of unsubstantiated assertions there Belial, do you have any evidence that what you are suggesting is what is going to happen ......or is that the worst case scenario..................there is also the bill - which says the 6 day delivery will be preserved with a one price system..........as for the pension.............well it wasn't safe in the past and we went on strike.

[belle smith]

.Strike! i won't be voting in favour though.
and some in my office who have always went on evrey strike in the past say they wont be striking this time.

That's a shame Belle, lets hope the majority don't feel the same way. If they do then we will all end up near the minimum wage (if it still exists) job losses will multiply ,and it's a fair bet that within five years the best you could look forward to is a PT contract for a three day week delivery service, can't imagine your pension terms will improve either. Not the sort of future most folks I know would willingly accept

There will still be a minimum wage Belial. and we won't be on it.
BTW we are currently having our pay cut in real terms by inflation, loss of D2D money and a pay freeze the other year.
we have been moved into a poorer pension, all this while our terms and conditions have been decamated!

okay the pay freeze had nothing to do with the union.
The changes to the pension were at least tacitly accepted, the rest the union were posatively campaining for.

The public line they have opposing privitisation is how great all this is. "we are modernising" the "modernisation is a sucess".
Like f**k it is! I really don't like my union doing my employers PR work for them.

[BELIAL]

.Strike! i won't be voting in favour though.
and some in my office who have always went on evrey strike in the past say they wont be striking this time.

That's a shame Belle, lets hope the majority don't feel the same way. If they do then we will all end up near the minimum wage (if it still exists) job losses will multiply ,and it's a fair bet that within five years the best you could look forward to is a PT contract for a three day week delivery service, can't imagine your pension terms will improve either. Not the sort of future most folks I know would willingly accept

Well you make a lot of unsubstantiated assertions there Belial, do you have any evidence that what you are suggesting is what is going to happen ......or is that the worst case scenario..................there is also the bill - which says the 6 day delivery will be preserved with a one price system..........as for the pension.............well it wasn't safe in the past and we went on strike.

Just an educated guess DVB, oh, and the fact that TNT Holland are well on their way meeting all those targets , remember the Dutch model ? First thing TNT did was to rationalise their MC network ,do you spot any similarities ?
How long do you think the Condems will keep their word on the USO ?

Now you really can't be trying to argue that our "gold plated , unaffordable ,kings ransom" pension scheme will be safe as houses with a purely for profit multinational hedge fund backed company taking over and issuing new contracts ?

[belle smith]

Belial if we are privitised.
If our new owners impose a paycut or further reductions to our pension or anything else like that. If the union then balloted for strike action they would get a resoundig Yes.
If the union had balloted on the pensions before, as they pledged, they would have got a resounding yes!

[BELIAL]

Belial if we are privitised.
If our new owners impose a paycut or further reductions to our pension or anything else like that. If the union then balloted for strike action they would get a resoundig Yes.
If the union had balloted on the pensions before, as they pledged, they would have got a resounding yes!

I take your point Belle and you might have added that any industrial action taken against a private employer would in theory be more effective than under present conditions by threatening profits and dividends.
However if you look to Holland as the blueprint you will notice that the employer has systematically ,step by little step ground away at the union strength until they felt confident enough that the union was so weakened ,a 10% pay cut could be pushed through along with massive redundancies and intensive lobbying for a three day service.