Unions pledge to resist Royal Mail privatisation

[BELIAL]

Sad thing is old DVB has got lots of valid points about the union leaderships decisions . Trouble is he ain't got no solutions ,and throwing in the towel will get him and the rest of us in a very bad place

[Tman]

Do you have an opinion on the subject of this thread Tman?...or have you just jumped in for a bit of aggro?
Kid's stuff...

Strange. About this time last week ol' dv was indulging in a bit of anti-CWU rhetoric, ("I don't answer to you" , "it's not a CWU only forum" "I don't know quite why I continually bash the CWU but I just do" etc) and IIRC Fishy jumped in with a similar retort of "have you got anything to add" etc.

You two are becoming predictable.

Go on. Say something new as a reply now. You can do it...

[fishtank]

Thank you for answering my question Tman...although a simple "I have nothing of interest to add" would have sufficed.

[borders]

spot on Belial, do people really think our industry will be a better place to work ? i.e good terms and conditions , if left alone to the management without any influence from the Union ?
the Union is just a reformist organisation i.e they just do deals. some deals are better than others , it is a continous struggle between the workers and our union and the management and the capitalists. to change this the workers have to go a step further , unlikely , so we just put up with the deals.
our industry is mainly unskilled and our only strength is our solidarity with each other but overtime this has been eroded as we now see many divisions within the workforce. overtime RM has manipulated and skillfully chipped away to create these divisions and the Union has been suckered into much of it .
Lenin said that the workers have to use all the tools at their disposal, the Union is only a tool and on its own it is not the means to the end.
we all have responsibility , we can sit on the sidelines and slag the Union off , rightly in many cases but how many people bother to get involved ? only 40 people bothered to turn up at our last annual regional unions meeting and half of them were reps. how many people put their heads above the paraphet but instead prefer to let others do it .
if we are privatised the union will be there in name only , they will be paid only lip service to, the management must be rubbing their hands in anticipation.....

[dvbuk55]

Bit of a sad retort for a man of your age DV.
Kid's stuff..

I found it quite empowering when I reached my second childhood tman ....................it seemed I could spot a waste of space much more easily

[fishtank]

spot on Belial, do people really think our industry will be a better place to work ? i.e good terms and conditions , if left alone to the management without any influence from the Union ?
the Union is just a reformist organisation i.e they just do deals. some deals are better than others , it is a continous struggle between the workers and our union and the management and the capitalists. to change this the workers have to go a step further , unlikely , so we just put up with the deals.
our industry is mainly unskilled and our only strength is our solidarity with each other but overtime this has been eroded as we now see many divisions within the workforce. overtime RM has manipulated and skillfully chipped away to create these divisions and the Union has been suckered into much of it .
Lenin said that the workers have to use all the tools at their disposal, the Union is only a tool and on its own it is not the means to the end.
we all have responsibility , we can sit on the sidelines and slag the Union off , rightly in many cases but how many people bother to get involved ? only 40 people bothered to turn up at our last annual regional unions meeting and half of them were reps. how many people put their heads above the paraphet but instead prefer to let others do it .
if we are privatised the union will be there in name only , they will be paid only lip service to, the management must be rubbing their hands in anticipation.....

So....let's summarise.
The union(i take it you mean negotiators)...negotiate poor deals but we have to put up with it because we are divided and apathetic and things would be worse if we didn't have a union....Who exactly gains from this scenario?
This union is the only organisation i have ever come across that blames it's members for leaving.
Not even you local health club would be dumb enough to buy into that...if members are leaving there is something wrong with the organisation...not the members....if members are apathetic there is something wrong with the organisation....not the members..but this union continues to abdicate it's faults down to the lowest level....the membership...the weak apathetic useless membership.

[dvbuk55]

So....let's summarise.
The union(i take it you mean negotiators)...negotiate poor deals but we have to put up with it because we are divided and apathetic and things would be worse if we didn't have a union....Who exactly gains from this scenario?
This union is the only organisation i have ever come across that blames it's members for leaving.
Not even you local health club would be dumb enough to buy into that...if members are leaving there is something wrong with the organisation...not the members....if members are apathetic there is something wrong with the organisation....not the members..but this union continues to abdicate it's faults down to the lowest level....the membership...the weak apathetic useless membership.

Do you know ft, I had never realised I was weak and apathetic because I belonged to the CWU...........................I mean how many times have we heard "We are the union" so if we are the union and weak and apathetic.........................the logical conclusion must be

[borders]

spot on Belial, do people really think our industry will be a better place to work ? i.e good terms and conditions , if left alone to the management without any influence from the Union ?
the Union is just a reformist organisation i.e they just do deals. some deals are better than others , it is a continous struggle between the workers and our union and the management and the capitalists. to change this the workers have to go a step further , unlikely , so we just put up with the deals.
our industry is mainly unskilled and our only strength is our solidarity with each other but overtime this has been eroded as we now see many divisions within the workforce. overtime RM has manipulated and skillfully chipped away to create these divisions and the Union has been suckered into much of it .
Lenin said that the workers have to use all the tools at their disposal, the Union is only a tool and on its own it is not the means to the end.
we all have responsibility , we can sit on the sidelines and slag the Union off , rightly in many cases but how many people bother to get involved ? only 40 people bothered to turn up at our last annual regional unions meeting and half of them were reps. how many people put their heads above the paraphet but instead prefer to let others do it .
if we are privatised the union will be there in name only , they will be paid only lip service to, the management must be rubbing their hands in anticipation.....

So....let's summarise.
The union(i take it you mean negotiators)...negotiate poor deals but we have to put up with it because we are divided and apathetic and things would be worse if we didn't have a union....Who exactly gains from this scenario?
This union is the only organisation i have ever come across that blames it's members for leaving.
Not even you local health club would be dumb enough to buy into that...if members are leaving there is something wrong with the organisation...not the members....if members are apathetic there is something wrong with the organisation....not the members..but this union continues to abdicate it's faults down to the lowest level....the membership...the weak apathetic useless membership.

how about answering my question in the first line, what do you reckon ?

[fishtank]

how about answering my question in the first line, what do you reckon ?

I have answered your question in as much as it's a pointless question because members know this but are still leaving,still feel disengaged,apathetic,isolated and will continue to leave.
And the last man left will continue to say it's better to have a union than not...and he'll still be right but he'll still be on his own.

[borders]

how about answering my question in the first line, what do you reckon ?

I have answered your question in as much as it's a pointless question because members know this but are still leaving,still feel disengaged,apathetic,isolated and will continue to leave.
And the last man left will continue to say it's better to have a union than not...and he'll still be right but he'll still be on his own.

right you are , thanks.

[BELIAL]

So ,DVB and Fishy just what steps do you propose we take to protect or even improve our terms and conditions. I'm all ears

[fishtank]

So ,DVB and Fishy just what steps do you propose we take to protect or even improve our terms and conditions. I'm all ears

I'll take it as a genuine question although i doubt it was.... i can't speak for dv but to be honest i'm not that interested in how you protect or improve your terms and conditions B.
That's something you have to work out for yourself,something we all have to work out...there are options within and without the CWU...but i wouldn't put too much money on the status quo...because that horse is on it's last legs.
Believe it or not a strong,focused,inclusive CWU would be my preference.

[BELIAL]

I'll take it as a genuine question although i doubt it was.... i can't speak for dv but to be honest i'm not that interested in how you protect or improve your terms and conditions B.

Yep no tricks ,a simple, plain and honest question, not much scope for doubt as far as I can see

i'm not that interested in how you protect or improve your terms and conditions B.

Well there my friend is where you, and 180,000 postal workers part company

[belle smith]

i'm not that interested in how you protect or improve your terms and conditions B.

Well there my friend is where you, and 180,000 postal workers part company

Seems to be in tune with the national negotiators though.
Thats the point Belial...i would and have happily went on strike to defend our T&C they haven't been defended though. We go on strike then the leaders of our union tell us it would be best to settle on RM's terms. and they manage to convince enough people to vote to accept.
Whats the point.

[BELIAL]

i'm not that interested in how you protect or improve your terms and conditions B.

Well there my friend is where you, and 180,000 postal workers part company

Seems to be in tune with the national negotiators though.
Thats the point Belial...i would and have happily went on strike to defend our T&C they haven't been defended though. We go on strike then the leaders of our union tell us it would be best to settle on RM's terms. and they manage to convince enough people to vote to accept.
Whats the point.

Fair point, and one that can be supported by the facts. Question is though Belle ,what are you going to do to change the state of affairs?

You don't like the terms of the deal, me neither and what's more I don't like the underhand way in which the dirty deed was done. Pulling out of the union just gives the people you despise a free hand ,in real terms it's just as good as a vote of confidence. Me ,I'd rather vote out the folks who let me down instead of throwing in the towel and shooting myself in the foot