Retirement age 'should be scrapped' says an Age UK survey

[BELIAL]

Just heard the Tory Tit in charge of pensions and the daft/evil f****r reckons the average life expectancy is now 90 ; everyone else think it is 77 ,guess the Eton old boys know best

I take it you mean Steven Webb? .....He's a Lib dem tit.

Is there a difference?

[heapsy]

Theres issues attached to all this that need serious consideration. If they scrap the retirement age, what happens to the young ones who cannot get work due to the greedy ones staying in their jobs too long? Secondly, if the retirement age IS scrapped, what happens to the pensions? Will companies take the piss and try to do away with them all together, or alter them in some way to THEIR benefit? ie reduced pay out etc etc. Also, what happens to the likes of the poor old postie? Anybody in delivery would surely be at a disadvantage due to physical ability/age related issues. Would they get some sort of enhancement to compnesate them for not being able to work on? Finally, IF the retirement age WAS scrapped, would it be written in to law that you could take your pension when it suited YOU? What I mean is, just suppose you didn't want, need, or were incapable of working on, would you still be able to take your pension when it suited you, or would there be some sort of perverse slant to all of this? ie, you cannot take a pension untill, lets say, 70 or even 75?

[RobertT]

Will companies take the piss and try to do away with them all together, or alter them in some way to THEIR benefit? ie reduced pay out etc etc.

Proposals are in place that from 2012 all companies will have to provide a pension for their employees and pay into it! It was called Personal Accounts, now rebranded as NEST. Although this could be put back due to the recession

Also, what happens to the likes of the poor old postie? Anybody in delivery would surely be at a disadvantage due to physical ability/age related issues. Would they get some sort of enhancement to compnesate them for not being able to work on?

No chance!

Finally, IF the retirement age WAS scrapped, would it be written in to law that you could take your pension when it suited YOU? What I mean is, just suppose you didn't want, need, or were incapable of working on, would you still be able to take your pension when it suited you, or would there be some sort of perverse slant to all of this? ie, you cannot take a pension untill, lets say, 70 or even 75?

It already is - you can take you pension from 55.

[BELIAL]

But surely we all want to continue making profit for our betters until our bones crumble to dust? Be I ever so umble

[baldrick]

It already is - you can take you pension from 55.

Yeah if you want to get half.

[heapsy]

Will companies take the piss and try to do away with them all together, or alter them in some way to THEIR benefit? ie reduced pay out etc etc.

Proposals are in place that from 2012 all companies will have to provide a pension for their employees and pay into it! It was called Personal Accounts, now rebranded as NEST. Although this could be put back due to the recession

Also, what happens to the likes of the poor old postie? Anybody in delivery would surely be at a disadvantage due to physical ability/age related issues. Would they get some sort of enhancement to compnesate them for not being able to work on?

No chance!

Finally, IF the retirement age WAS scrapped, would it be written in to law that you could take your pension when it suited YOU? What I mean is, just suppose you didn't want, need, or were incapable of working on, would you still be able to take your pension when it suited you, or would there be some sort of perverse slant to all of this? ie, you cannot take a pension untill, lets say, 70 or even 75?

It already is - you can take you pension from 55.

Not sure if you understood me on the personal accounts issue. What I actually mean is: to seperate the state pension, so that we no longer pay the pensions of the retired people. It would of course, need to be phased in. However, in the long run it would solve the pension issue. As it stands, each generation that follows has to pay the pensions for those already retired. This just is not workable. The demographics of the country prove it. Falling birth rates and longer lives mean the pension is not sustainable. (Also fuels the demand for greater immigration, to keep the taxes rolling in) People have to pay for their own state pension in future or the country will go bust. The idea of working longer and longer is only so the politicians don't have to come up wih a real solution. They know that the workshy will not like the idea that the government will no longer provide for them, and that is why they have not done what they should be doing.

[RobertT]

Not sure if you understood me on the personal accounts issue. What I actually mean is: to seperate the state pension, so that we no longer pay the pensions of the retired people. It would of course, need to be phased in.

We, the workers also pay for the NHS,unemployment benefits and the welfare state as a whole. So to change that, there would have to be a massive change in how the country works and pensions are long term things so I'd have thought a phasing in of at least 50 years would be needed.

However, in the long run it would solve the pension issue. As it stands, each generation that follows has to pay the pensions for those already retired. This just is not workable.

It would only solve the problem if everybody pays a decent amount of money into their pension throughout their working lives, but lots of people just won't be able to afford it.

The basic state pension currently pays £97 p/w and pension credit would increase that to £132 p/w - assuming no other income. Both amounts usually increase with inflation every year. So based on current annuity rates you'll need pension pots of about £130,000 and £170,000 respectively to achieve a pension of those amounts at 65. The current average pension pot at retirement is about £30,000!

I agree with what your saying, but personally I think there will be some kind of state pension for a long time yet.

[BELIAL]

Not sure if you understood me on the personal accounts issue. What I actually mean is: to seperate the state pension, so that we no longer pay the pensions of the retired people. It would of course, need to be phased in.

We, the workers also pay for the NHS,unemployment benefits and the welfare state as a whole. So to change that, there would have to be a massive change in how the country works and pensions are long term things so I'd have thought a phasing in of at least 50 years would be needed.

However, in the long run it would solve the pension issue. As it stands, each generation that follows has to pay the pensions for those already retired. This just is not workable.

It would only solve the problem if everybody pays a decent amount of money into their pension throughout their working lives, but lots of people just won't be able to afford it.

The basic state pension currently pays £97 p/w and pension credit would increase that to £132 p/w - assuming no other income. Both amounts usually increase with inflation every year. So based on current annuity rates you'll need pension pots of about £130,000 and £170,000 respectively to achieve a pension of those amounts at 65. The current average pension pot at retirement is about £30,000!

I agree with what your saying, but personally I think there will be some kind of state pension for a long time yet.

Surely you are not saying that people are being sold a pup They work for 40+ years on a FALSE PROMISE and then get stiffed when they have zero industrial clout ,SHOCKING

[don]

we are going into the dark ages people fought for the right to retire at 65 and now we are going backwoods never being able to retire as for not affording our state pension its the lowest state pension in western europe how do the other pay out such good pensions why do we get so short changed.

[RobertT]

Other countries do have bigger state pensions but they generally have higher taxes too!

What a lot of people tend to forget is that in the past the life expectancy rates were a lot lower than they are today. Most people weren't expected to live much beyond 65, assuming they didn't die before, so the state pension was only paid out for a few years.
Now someone retiring at 65 would live, on average, into their 80's and people generally have more aspirations for their retirement too. So it's obvious that you have to take more control of your pension saving! The state will only ever give you the bare minimum to live on, so it's up to the individual to make their own retirememnt what they want it to be!
This might not be what people want to hear but it is a fact of life!

[don]

I started working at 15 some people now dont start working till 22 do you think its fair to expect people that have paid there national insurance and tax for 50 years to be told that sorry your not getting you pension when you thought you was but your going to have to work even longer. As for not paying as much tax as every other western european nation dont think thats true as a lot of the tax we pay in uk is by stealth i read recently that if you do a 9-5 job you have to get to 1315 in the afternoon till you are not working for the tax man.In germany the average state pension is over £200 pound france most people retire at 60 why are people in uk so short changed.?

[RobertT]

I started working at 15 some people now dont start working till 22 do you think its fair to expect people that have paid there national insurance and tax for 50 years to be told that sorry your not getting you pension when you thought you was but your going to have to work even longer.

No I don't, but then again the people who don't start work until 22 may well have gone to university and in theory will get better paid jobs and so pay more tax.
One of the problems of putting your faith in the state is that you're at the mercy of the government and whatever financial condition the country is in. The current national debt and austerity measures are an example.

Personally, I'm in my early 40's and will have paid my 30 years of contributions worth by the time I'm 46, my state pension age is currently 66.2, so will potentially pay NI for 20 years with no added benefit to my pension!

In germany the average state pension is over £200 pound

They pay 9.75% of their pay into the state pension. Our NI rate is 11% I think, and that includes payments into NHS,etc.

why are people in uk so short changed.?

One of the reasons is that in 1980 Thatcher changed the way the state pension increases each year. I think the current government have announced plans to reverse that, albeit with CPI rises rather than RPI.