Atos and manager harassment.

[BarneyBoots]

After recently breaking my right hand as a result of a AOD,I was contacted by ATOS to discuss a back to work rehabilitation plan.
The plan agreed was a gradual increase in hours and in the 5th week a return to my normal contracted hours (40).

I returned to work on tuesday and during my back to work interview the manager showed me a copy of my ATOS report which differed greatly from my original agreement with the occupational therapist.It was vague at best but clearly stated that on week 5 there would be a "Return to full contractual hours".After pointing out that even though the plan was not exactly as discussed that surely the fact that it is a "return to full contractual hours" it indicates a gradual increase from week 1.I was told by my manager that I would be working my full hours right off the bat and that this is how "ATOS word it"

I refused to accept this and told my manager to contact the Occupational Therapist in question and get some clarification,I also indicated that I would like to speak to her.

The following myself and my Union Rep where told that ATSO had sent a clarification on the report which now stated that in week 5 there would be a "Return to full contractual duties".I was then told that it is not ATOS policy to speak to employee regarding the rehabilitation plan.How the hell does that work ? Its my plan,yet they wont speak to me !!! Also included was a totally new statement not in the orginal report which say that "In her opinion no reduced hours are advised at this time" Totally contradicting my agreement and surely the purpose of a gradual back to work program.

I cannot prove this but it strikes me that the report has been changed to what the manager wants and so that it gives him scope to make me work 40 hours straight off.As a result of this I have basically been sorting,prepping and doing the dead box for 8hours a day since tuesday.My hand is now very sore,stiff and feels considerably worse that what it did before I returned to work.I indicated that at this time I do not feel capable of working 8hrs a day,his response that he can "only do what ATOS recommends".

I have filed a bullying and harassment form earlier today but am not sure what to do next.
The fact that my report has changed after the Therapist speaking to my manager yet I am not allowed to her speaks volumes to me about what has transpired,how is this allowed to happen.My report has been changed,ignored and as a result my hand feels considerably worse.I was told by my doctor that even though the bone will heal in 6 weeks it will take 12 weeks to regain full strength and full mobility.Yet it seems that I am given jobs that aggrivate my hand to the maximum degree for twice the time that I originally agreed to.

Any advice greatly appreciated

[calpsy]

Go to your doctor .

Tell him your hand hurts like hell .

He gives you a fit note stating no more than 1 or 2 hours work per day for a few weeks .

You give your DOM it and thats what you do and ONLY do .

Obviously the fit note will be what you and your gp discusses but you get my drift .

This happened to me but my DOM was great and made me do word for word what my fit note said .

[Running Man]

It seems that you have a 'Prize Tosser' as a line manager to me.
During my 20+ years as a manager with POL (where most of us know how to speak to people) I have referred many people to ATOS, or the EHS as they were once known, and I have always employed the same philosophy with regards to such referrals and it is this; what is the point of me seeking the advice of ATOS, whom I believe are experts in their field of work, if I am then going to ignore what they are advising?
If ATOS tell me that a particular course of action is the best way forward for a member of my team, and therefore for me and for the business, then who am I to say "thanks but that's a load of rubbish!"
Your situation strikes me as a classic case of your manager referring you to ATOS simply to tick a box in your Return to Work interview and there is absolutely no genuine concern for you or willingness to support you in that referral.
I think you have done the right thing in completing the bullying form. It's a sorry state of affairs I know but sometimes you have to take drastic action to achieve something that should be so bloody straightforward and simple. Goodness knows we have all sorts of policies and procedures that should protect our people from such disrespectful treatment by inept line managers.
Good luck with your case and I hope you ultimately receive the fair treatment that you and all of our hard working staff are entitled to.

[calpsy]

Running man ........ ATOS in my opinion and many many others in my DO and on here are utter SHITE !

I was off for 3 months with severe ligament damage . Doctor and physio ( who i was in very regular contact with ) both agreed there was no way I could go back to work . One month into my sick leave ATOS phoned me . I told them word for word what both these PROFESSIONALS said .............. and this person ON THE PHONE came to the conclusion that I was fit for work and should start back the very next week ( this was a friday afternoon call ) . 2 months later I go back so ATOS were obviously VERY VERY wrong in my case .

[elal1963]

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/l ... e-revealed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mazza111]

Had the same problem with them, agreed to something on the phone, then sent my manager something totally different.

Luckily my manager isn't too bad. Compared to some of the prats i've read about on here

[brothermagrew]

Morale of the story surely then is to advise those on the other end of the phone that this conversation and all subsequent conversations will be recorded for purposes of absolute clarity

[fishtank]

This is from the managers brief on "fit notes"
What are people likely to ask?

What do I need to know?

The aim of the new fit note is to give you and your team greater flexibility in managing sickness absence. A doctor will be able to suggest ways of helping an individual get back to work. Discussion options with your GP could now include:
• a phased return to work;
• altered hours;
• amended duties; and/or
• workplace adaptations.

Looking at short term modifications – and to give you some alternatives to simply reducing the total hours of your colleague’s duty - you might want to consider all of the various options available, such as:

• processing, delivery, indoor, outdoor, driving, just mail prep and/or just delivery, and sitting or standing to work.
• hours of work (e.g. reduced, or times of attendance changed)
• reduced lifting or carrying activity
• location of work (e.g. from a Delivery Office to a Mail Centre)
• location of colleague - change of office, change of role

Presenting such a range of options could, for example, allow colleagues to carry on with their full indoor duty (e.g. if they were able to sit down to sort mail for 15 minutes out of every hour, rather than for the full shift).

Please note: information on the fit note is only the starting point, and not the only option, as GPs won’t necessarily have an in-depth knowledge of what tasks your colleagues fulfil in their roles, and are not trained in occupational advice. What’s recorded on the fit note will also have to be agreed between the GP and the individual. Holding regular conversations with those team members who are affected should help them feel supported, and allay any concerns they may have, as many of the existing sick note procedures remain unchanged.


What are people likely to ask?

Question: What should I do if the GP has indicated ‘may be fit for work’ on the new form?
Answer: You need to discuss with the individual what the GP has advised and carefully consider their comments. The purpose of the ‘fit note’ is to help people get back to work as quickly as possible, which is good for the individual and good for the business. Managers should do what they can to facilitate this. If a return to work is possible you should agree any temporary modifications to their job or hours and what support you will provide and for how long. In most cases the modifications should not be complicated and will be short term.

Question: What happens if I can’t make the suggested modifications to the work/workplace?
Answer: If the doctor has advised that your colleague ‘may be fit for work’, but you can’t make the modifications to help them return to work, you should explain the reasons for this to your colleague and keep a written record documenting why. Details of this discussion should be stored alongside their local sick absence papers (fit notes could be stored here for future reference). The fit note then functions as if the doctor had advised ‘not fit for work’. The individual does not need to go back to their doctor for a new note to confirm this. When considering the doctors advice, you should always consider if the advice is consistent with any industry, or specific safety guidelines or regulations that the doctor may not be aware of.

Question: How long should any work/workplace modifications last?
Answer: The doctor will state the period of time their advice covers on the fit note. When agreeing a return to work plan you should always be clear on the length of time of any modifications. The intention of the fit note is to get people back to work sooner, in the knowledge that working aids recovery and a return to normal. It is therefore about temporary measures. Although there is no definition of this, if the period of modifications exceeds two weeks, a referral to Occupational Health is advised. (See below)

Question: When should I refer to Occupational Health?
Answer: Immediately on receipt of a fit note indicating your colleague ‘may be fit for work’:

o if the condition relates to an existing problem that brings the colleague under the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA), or if you are concerned that the new condition might do so;
o you have any concerns about the individual’s safety or their impact on the safety of others;
o your suggestions of modifications based upon the doctors advice are not agreed by your colleague;
o if the doctor recommends an Occupational Health opinion on the fit note then contact the Atos medical helpdesk

• During the period of modified duties contact the HR Services Advice Centre on your dedicated Regional or Business Unit Managers’ advice line, if:

o it is advised to be, or becomes, longer than two weeks;

Question: How does this affect attendance management?
Answer: If the fit note states ‘unfit’, the situation is unchanged from current procedure.
Or (a) if the fit note suggests work modifications and these can be made, the colleague returns to work, while the time on modified duties is regarded as normal work for attendance procedure purposes.
Alternatively (b) if the fit note suggests modifications and these can be made, but there is a delay of a few days in organising the modifications, these days remain as absent/sick.
Finally (c) if the fit note suggests modifications and these can’t be made the individual’s absence will still be considered under the attendance procedure (as Royal Mail will be unable to accommodate them in that instance).

[MinisterofCucumber]

An ATOS doctor wrote:

"if a doctor at Atos racks up more than three complaints in three months, he is disciplined. First, he is warned by his supervisor. If the problems persist he is given, in effect, a final warning that his work will be cut or that his registration to work will be revoked."

The complaints refer to complaints from the client which, for ATOS, is RM because they pay for ATOS's service. RM has set up two complaint routes:

Management are told that if a member of staff makes a complaint against ATOS then the complaint should be forwarded to an RM manager in the CSA health team, HR Services.

However, if a manager wants to complain about an ATOS decision etc. then they should contact the ATOS contact centre on 0845 612 4123.

I reckon that the call centre route is the one that actually gets through. If we all use this route to complain, it might bugger up their system.

The union should be looking into why there are two routes for raising a complaint against ATOS.

[General Mannerheim]

I fear it`s only going to get worse with these new fit notes with Atossers bullying more and more posties back into work as it`s good for them.

I like the bit that says "The information on the form is still only advice to the employee(which must be agreed with the GP)and not an instruction to the employer.
So whats the point in the doctor putting light duties only or 3 weeks indoor work required when they can just say it`s not an instruction and Atossers can say otherwise?

[pop it in pete]

Morale of the story surely then is to advise those on the other end of the phone that this conversation and all subsequent conversations will be recorded for purposes of absolute clarity

This has been done at my office after a face to face was refused and after a bit of silence and a word with her advisor the ATOS lady came back and ofered a face to face instead of the prospect of a RECORDED TELEPHONE CONVERSATION!!! What on earth were they afraid of saying ????????

[BarneyBoots]

Dreading work in the morning because I am expected to go out and do 1/4 of a delivery.
Doing the dead box for 8 hours a day all week has really aggrivated my hand and feels like it did about a month ago.Complained to my DOM on saturday morning and his response was to vary my work between putting out D2D and doing the dead box !!!!
Might go back to the doctors tommorow,explain the situation and see what they say.Just got a few questions if anybody can help.

Are ATOS phone consultations recorded ? Surely there is a record of what I orginally agreed to ?

Am I entitled to see any correspondence between my DOM and ATOS apart from the reports that are sent.i.e What the DOM has asked ATOS and what he has told them I would be doing if I returned on light duties ?

Can I ask for a new referal as I am not happy with what I am currently asked to do as I feel it is making the hand worse ?

If the GP makes any recommendation that contradict what ATOS say,does the DOM have to follow these and if he asks to refer me to ATOS again can I tell him to do one ?

[General Mannerheim]

Dreading work in the morning because I am expected to go out and do 1/4 of a delivery.
Doing the dead box for 8 hours a day all week has really aggrivated my hand and feels like it did about a month ago.Complained to my DOM on saturday morning and his response was to vary my work between putting out D2D and doing the dead box !!!!
Might go back to the doctors tommorow,explain the situation and see what they say.Just got a few questions if anybody can help.

Are ATOS phone consultations recorded ? Surely there is a record of what I orginally agreed to ?Yes they record them,infact they usually say they are before they speak to youbut even if they didn`t it is a FACT they record them

Am I entitled to see any correspondence between my DOM and ATOS apart from the reports that are sent.i.e What the DOM has asked ATOS and what he has told them I would be doing if I returned on light duties ?yes you can get this infomation by asking for the business referral from Royal Mail to Atos,you get it by sending off for it under the data protection act.

Can I ask for a new referal as I am not happy with what I am currently asked to do as I feel it is making the hand worse ?Don`t see why not as it`s in theirs and yours interest to keep you well.

If the GP makes any recommendation that contradict what ATOS say,does the DOM have to follow these and if he asks to refer me to ATOS again can I tell him to do one ?

No he will usually follow Atossers advice even if it means rough riding over your doctors advice as quote any advice given off a doctor is NOT AN INSTRUCTION TO THE EMPLOYER!

[BarneyBoots]

Gets better.Asked for a new referal this morning and having yet another conversation with my DOM about ATOS.
I am informed that they make very accurate rehabilitation plans as they have access to my medical records.
Alarm bells start ringing and I ask him "How exactly have they got access to my medical records"
Now according to him,when I give him permission to refer me to ATOS i automatically give them permission to access my medical history.

Is it just the way that he worded it or is there something more sinister here ?
At NO time have I provided consent written or verbal for anyone to access my medical history.
Surely if they have then this is VERY serious,but surely they cant if they havent had written consent from myself ?

Am going to ask them when they phone up for my new appointment if they have my medical history,surely if they have the this is a major breach of confidentiality.

[andy2007]

Barney, I can't remember which way round it is (it's a bit since I was last referred). But there's a box for you to tick to say whether or not you give consent for them to get your medical records. I just can't remember whether you tick it to give consent, or tick it to deny consent. So you might have inadvertantly given them consent. Hopefully, someone with more recent experience can clarify which way round it is.