How are we going to define walk spans????

[pop it in pete]

I know this may be moved on to the 2010 forum but i would like H&S reps views on walk spans. Under the proposals the 3.5hr span has been blown out of the water and replaced with what exactly???

Nothing as far as i can see just fill your time up until its time to finish. So how as h&s reps are we supposed to judge who can do what. Capabilities? Or is there a cunning plan with a matrex to work to?

And what guidence did the negotiation team gain from our Health and Safety head Dave Joyce?

[ashadd]

I know this may be moved on to the 2010 forum but i would like H&S reps views on walk spans. Under the proposals the 3.5hr span has been blown out of the water and replaced with what exactly???

Nothing as far as i can see just fill your time up until its time to finish. So how as h&s reps are we supposed to judge who can do what. Capabilities? Or is there a cunning plan with a matrex to work to?

And what guidence did the negotiation team gain from our Health and Safety head Dave Joyce?

It will be left to RM , and RM only to have the last word on delivery spans.....i fear!

[kendo1]

Forget H+S RM have no intrests in your safety whatso ever.They say all the right things to cover their backs.

Look at the snow the ice the below 0 temps earlier this year.Why did RM do make us go out in unsafe conditions,did the CWU raise a voice,oh they lost their voice and sight in that period.

Only this week a chap in our office who has a injury obtained whilst doing his walk,and has Documents from the Hospital confirming his condition
was preassureied to go out on his walk.

Every year Managers ask for details of any problems on our walks ,every year we report them,every year it gets ignored.

Footwear that is substandard and defective ,if its under 6 months old cannot be replaced without permission from head office,even when Managers confirm the foot wear lets in water.


So tell me RM and CWU real stand on H+S
National CWU will dare not due anything to upset RM in even the slightest way!!

[andy2007]

If all else fails. Just call the HSE on: 0845 345 0055 and report what's going on annonymously. They've responded to complaints about RM before, and will do so again. Obviously, you need to let your H&S Reps try to deal with it first. But if they can't do anything about it, HSE will!

[viking]

This subject also confuses me. I remember when RM, and CWU were all involved in the trials a few years back on increasing the delivery spans to 4 hrs and 4 1/2. It was decided that these were totally unacceptable due to health and safety reasons...lack of toilets, replenishments etc etc. It was also said that posties should avoid working in the mid day heat in the summer and extreme cold temperatures in winter .All this happened before the starting times were altered as to what we are working now! So god knows what has happened to all the reports that were shown. We will now be expected to work later in the day, and do whatever delivery span our dims want us to do. Obviously you workers who are thinking of voting YES
put yourselves in the delivery staffs situation and think if you would like to work where you were unable to go to a toilet when you needed to go, stop for a drink without being accussed of wilful delay of mail and work in such heat that it was actually potentially damaging your health, and take a cut in wages whilst delivering heavier mail ! If you want to swap perhaps you could leave your name with other posties on this site who im sure would be quite happy to take your job.

[BELIAL]

This subject also confuses me. I remember when RM, and CWU were all involved in the trials a few years back on increasing the delivery spans to 4 hrs and 4 1/2. It was decided that these were totally unacceptable due to health and safety reasons...lack of toilets, replenishments etc etc. It was also said that posties should avoid working in the mid day heat in the summer and extreme cold temperatures in winter .All this happened before the starting times were altered as to what we are working now! So god knows what has happened to all the reports that were shown. We will now be expected to work later in the day, and do whatever delivery span our dims want us to do. Obviously you workers who are thinking of voting YES
put yourselves in the delivery staffs situation and think if you would like to work where you were unable to go to a toilet when you needed to go, stop for a drink without being accussed of wilful delay of mail and work in such heat that it was actually potentially damaging your health, and take a cut in wages whilst delivering heavier mail ! If you want to swap perhaps you could leave your name with other posties on this site who im sure would be quite happy to take your job.

undeniably true,good post

[Stormproof]

The worrying part of this agreement for me as others have stated is being out in extreme weather.
Will RM supply us with uniform fit for the conditions?
Will RM supply us with sun screen?
Will RM supply us with hot/cold drinks?
Will RM punish us when we collapse from sun stroke?
Will RM punish us when we get frost bite?
Will RM punish us when we have kidney/bladder problems due to lack of toilet facilities?
I know this sounds extreme but it is our health and a few years down the line are RM going to compensate people that have gone on to develope skin cancer or other illnesses due to being out in extreme conditions?

[kendo1]

These Points should be addressed in full by the the CWU .

Do not be silly ,Do not think the senior CWU will do these impossible walks ,these walks are perfectly OK for Foot Soldiers ,and thats it.
Our Leaders think they know whats best for us,even when we know the Opposite !

[Bouncing Souls]

The worrying part of this agreement for me as others have stated is being out in extreme weather.
Will RM supply us with uniform fit for the conditions?

This is defo a problem, doing away with the harrington style jackets was imo a mistake, the fleece type jackets will be no use in the summer when its maybe just a bit cold to walk round with just a shirt on but to warm for a fleece like jacket, on the flip side the waterproofs aren't great, RM need to bite the bullet and if they are wanting posties to walk round for 4hrs+ then we need goretex type gear, the boots have many many threads on here about the total cr ap they are.

Will RM supply us with sun screen?

This has been brought up many many times, and we seen to go round in circles, the argument is usually RM will say that you are responsible for taking care of your own skin protection, cream or a long sleeve shirt and wear a hat i.e if you go to Spain in the Summer with Thomas Cook do you expect them (TC) to supply you with suncream?

Will RM supply us with hot/cold drinks?

RM will supply you with a water bottle (they did last summer) you have to ask, water is freely available in all DO's (can't speak for the whole UK but the offices i know have a water fountain/bottled on a tap system) again good for the warm months, doesn't help the winter

Will RM punish us when we collapse from sun stroke?

Living in Scotland this is unlikely for me but i agree that working in temps of 70+ for a long period doing manual work isn't going to be good for you, be interesting to see how other 'hot' countries posties get round this

Will RM punish us when we get frost bite?

This will apply to me! esp after the winter we've just had! , again they (RM) supply you with clothing to keep warm, the gloves are a problem though, but not sure how to get round this, as full finger gloves are no use (ok for 1 hand, the bundle holding hand but not the flicking through hand)

Will RM punish us when we have kidney/bladder problems due to lack of toilet facilities?

This is defo an issue, the 2 to a van may help this as if you're caught short then you can drive back to the office, also for the female staff who really can't pop behind a bush.
This imo needs to be addrerssed asap

I know this sounds extreme but it is our health and a few years down the line are RM going to compensate people that have gone on to develope skin cancer or other illnesses due to being out in extreme conditions?

i think the CWU H+S will have to be involved with this and give out guidelines to whats reasonably acceptable conditions outside for posties to work in, the country differs greatly weatherwise and i think that local agreements will have to come into effect. The probelm lies with the DOMs and how they see it, i.e if there is 4 feet of snow outside you're not going to get round a 4hr walk in 4 hrs, the snow slows you down, a bit of come and go is going to have to be accepted, same goes for the heat, if its 85+( unlikely i know!) then again the postie is going to tire quicker due to the heat.

Its in RM's interest to have a healthy workforce and people on the sick does not help them one bit.

The above is just my own opinion, i'm a H+S Rep so i'm as interested in the above issues as you are

[brothermagrew]

As I recall from the previous CWU Safety Reps TDS/SDD Revision Verification Checklist which was a checklist to verify that the necessary arrangements for health, safety and welfare, as agreed in the TDS/SDD National Agreement have been executed to a suitable and sufficient degree.

Who knows we may see something similar being released by the CWU with regards to the 2010 and Beyond Agreement if it is voted in.

Checklist Questions for TDS/SDD National Agreement:

Is the unit covered by a ‘Managing Change’ risk assessment as required in the safety concurrence section of the Royal Mail Risk Assessment Manual?

Have comprehensive risk assessments been carried out on all Outdoor work activities using relevant forms [WPQ1&2] from RA Manual?

Is there an action plan on the appropriate form [WPQ3] and are all identified risks recorded along with details of the risk control method and dates for ‘action completed?

Has all information on known ‘Dangerous or Nuisance Dogs’ been made known to affected staff and recorded on ‘Dog Hazard Cards’ and recorded in the Walk logs?

Have risk assessments been carried out on all supplementary activities – see RA Manual ‘Manual Handling’ section page 5.9 for summary list?

Has proper documented consideration been given to the application of the appropriate ‘Delivery Method’ for each delivery?

If new delivery equipment is being used have the affected staff been given the appropriate level of training in its safe use?

Have appropriate ‘weight on delivery’ solutions been provided for ‘Pouch over the Shoulder’ deliveries e.g. Rendezvous, Pouch Box, and Safe Drop etc?

Is there an effective ‘Weight on Delivery’ monitoring system in place enabling the recording of individual pouch weights subject to identify developing ‘WOD’ problems?

Are ‘pouch over the shoulder’ deliveries planned using the matrix from the ‘Multiple Pouch Weight Study’ with pouch weights subject to a descending scale?

Are recommended pouch weights for each delivery recorded in the Walk Log to assist leave reserves in ensuring appropriate weights are carried?

Have safe, secure, hygienic sanitary conveniences on each delivery been identified by a manager and staff representative and there details recorded in the Walk Log to remove ambiguity over welfare arrangements? This provision applies to all ‘longer’ deliveries.

Have meal reliefs been built into duties with at least 20 minutes scheduled prior to departure from the office?

Is there evidence of effective ‘management control’ of the taking of part meal relief prior to delivery?

Has provisions been made for all staff and mail to be accelerated to delivery along with appropriate facilities for safe storage of all secondary pouches? [Revisions to be planned on a basis of no private car use].

Has the Workplace Safety Rep been consulted on all relevant H&S and welfare matters and invited to all appropriate TDS/SDD meetings?