Current Industrial Action

[giveemenoughrope]

Some of the replies speak volumes. It's obviously not worth bothering to discuss anything here when 70% of the replies are nothing but shallow and transparent strawman arguments. It's quite clear that Royal Mail is finished so my parting words shall be this. Bring on the tories and I'll be right behind you in the dole queue thinking about how nice it was to have an income.

[BELIAL]

Risible

[norbert]

Risible

Thatcher's children that should have been the subject of a three consenting Doctors decision - a couple or more decades ago , read the Mail & Express too often

so busy that they're on the internet

[Harry_Perkins]

My point is like I said before. It's MY choice. Everyone has a choice. If you don't like your job. Leave. Don't punish me because you don't like YOUR job.

Yes, that is right. Everyone has choice and on Thursday and Friday will be taking the choice of withdrawing our labour power, our product, if you will, from the market. We are not punishing you anymore than you'd be punishing someone, if, for whatever reason, you didn't want to sell them one of the products you do. There is no fundamental obligation that says someone must deliver your items. Strikes are inevitable under the current prevailing social relations and all your posts on here will not change that. Workers well understand that what you're saying here amounts to a race to the bottom:

A race to the bottom usually refers to an individual seeking a more favourable outcome at the expense of others by upsetting an equilibrium to their own favour, only to cause retaliation by the other individuals, resulting in all participants having an overall less favourable outcome.

So this is why we stay and fight. I don't love the job by any means but it is the best job I've had. It also happens to the be the only one that has had a recognised union. This is not an accident. Again, this is why I think it is better to stay and fight rather than watch the job go the way of the worse workplaces I left. Race to the bottom is bad for everyone, you included, even if it'll take longer to effect you.

[steve1873]

We are also ebay traders, and it is going to be tough no doubt about that- due to the nature of our items sent we can't even choose to go courier, as no customer is going to want to stump up the difference between a 90p label and whatever a courier would charge.

I was fully against the strikes as they were portrayed in the media, but having done a bit of reading I can see that it is for us customers as much as it is for the Royal Mail workers.

Personally we will stop all business a couple of days before and a couple of days after, and just hope that the new stuff gets sorted before the backlog.
As has been pointed out the strikers are also losing pay, not much we can do but suffer with them. Hopefully Ebay's plans to disallow use of the despatch DSR around the time of the national strike will help, if they remember to put it into practise
At least the issue is getting covered in the media (skewed as it is) so our buyers will be aware of possible problems- you never know, some of them may decide to get their shopping done before Christmas eve this year.

I don't think that the industrial action will make any difference, but it's better than no-one trying and the service we all rely on falling to bits without a fight.

My heart goes out to you and your employees, and indeed anyone who is really affected by the strikes, but to blame the posties instead of the descision makers at RM is very unfair.

Royal Mail employees who voted to strike are also RM customers, so will suffer many of the inconveniencies as other members of the public.

[taj47]

I wasn't going to bother posting this time around (I posted during the last postal strike that nearly finished us off due to the huge pile of packages that never got delivered or returned, and didn't see the point this time as it was largely three monkeys time), but can't resist after reading the comment that you don't believe the person who stated how many hours they work.
We the customer are supposed to listen to you and believe you and your reasons, but when your customer states that they work x hours per week (as do I), you don't believe them? Unbelievable arrogance. I also work 70 or so hours a week - I do everything in my business from buying, photographs, picking, packing, posting, to accounts and customer service. Please do not tell me that I do not.
The argument from the customer point of view is all about choices - we have NONE.
You choose to strike - it is your *choice*. Nobody is forcing you, however much you might feel that they are.
I and others like me have *no choice* because there is *no alternative* so it is very difficult to feel any solidarity, however much one might sympathise with postal workers predicament, because one might be forced to sacrifice oneself - no choice. My average sale is around £5 - I sit here all day and all night stuffing things in jiffy bags to make a quid or so on each parcel and that is supposed to keep my family, none of whom can get a job. I don't employ anyone because I can't afford to. I take around £100/week wages and rely on tax credits to exist. I cannot use one of your so-called competitors because they do not provide such a service - there is no *choice*.
Already my sales are through the floor - people (who generally are *not* aware of when the strike is because they don't really take much notice until their post is late...) are simply not buying because they have no idea when they might receive the parcel, and on top of the recession, it's probably terminal.
No choice. When the parcels are lost or trapped in some backlog, I end up having to replace the parcel and all profit is wiped out and a loss made - *no choice*.
And looking back over my life, in which all of my jobs have been white collar clerical jobs, I was expected to work as many hours as I was needed for *no extra pay at all*. No overtime. No union. The terms were incorporated into the contract of employment. No choice.
This strike which is wholly of *your choice* will probably finish my business this time, and I have absolutely *no choice* in the matter. This is why your customers are frustrated - this is why you are losing so much support while you believe that you are fully entitled to such support. Your self-interest is the only motivator - please do not say that it is as much for us as it is for you, because it isn't. This is not a co-operative, or a community - it is one poorly paid and treated worker pitted against another. You cannot win - Labour's reforms are like a steamroller, and nothing will stop it. You will simply be replaced by people who don't resist.
I posted here in 2007 when Hayes & Co were flavour of the year, and pointed out how much they were taking the pee out of you and that it would achieve nothing. I asked how much Hayes was earning and who he went drinking with - I got slated - which was not unexpected, and I see now that that particular unpleasant penny has dropped at least with some people, and yet you still believe that this cretin who thinks he is Scargill MkII has a point. Even if you have a point, he does not - he is one of them. Maybe he has even been persuaded to come over all pretendy-militant to ensure that the RM can implement its changes with the least possible public and government resistance.
Bitter? Yes - 10 years of trying to build a business from scratch for nothing, and what now with so many people out of work? Both myself and my husband are at that age when nobody will want to know, especially with such a massive pool of unskilled, young, cheap labour out there. He's not been able to get factory or warehouse work for years now. We will probably never work again.
I look forward to meeting you all down the Jobcentre - in case you didn't know, you have to report weekly for interrogation after a few months on the dole these days, and don't forget that ZanuLabour have plans for us all to have to work for our dole. Humping heavy bags around for a few hundred quid a week might seem like a holiday if you end up picking litter on the motorway in a NuLab hi-vis 'workfare' vest for £65 a week so think on before you think that you have nothing to lose.
Real reform comes from within, not by force, but oddly enough, the moment working-class people achieve any position of power or influence, they often transform into the very people they loathed for so long. Maybe Hayes thinks £100k isn't enough and fancies himself on a nice RM executive salary. Do these people that represent you ever make sacrifices? It's easy to sacrifice someone else when you know that you are allright Jack.
Good luck to you - you're going to need it.
(NB please don't bother replying - there's no point as I won't be back to read it, because there is no point etc etc.)

[taj47]

PS the timing of these strikes, like last time, is designed to hurt the *customer* who will still have to post the mail and hope for the best because they have no choice. If you really cared about the customer, you could have left it until after Christmas...it's one thing to want to pressure RM, it's another to be willing to sacrifice your own customer, without whom there would be no business.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

PS the timing of these strikes, like last time, is designed to hurt the *customer* who will still have to post the mail and hope for the best because they have no choice. If you really cared about the customer, you could have left it until after Christmas...it's one thing to want to pressure RM, it's another to be willing to sacrifice your own customer, without whom there would be no business.

The last strikes finished on or about the 4th of October and had been running since June and there were no local official strikes.

These National strikes are starting mid October and have been localised over various reason since March

cant see much similarity there.

---------------------------

A lot of people are asking why we are striking and that we shouldn't there are other choices. Ok the Choices:

Individuals:

1. Sumbit B&H complaints about managers: Being done in most units when people feel they have been, however reading the board most exceed the time-scales laid down by RM and seem to be found in RMs favour - until they go to ET.
2. Employment Tribunals: We have to exhaust the internal procedure which is covered above but I have heard of the road to an ET taking up to a year. In most cases when an apology from the offender is part of the judgement this is never enforced. Just check out the Burslem stories.
3. Working to Rule - Even following RM guidelines on how to do the job safely and walking/working at a reasonable pace people are being suspended or sent home without pay without due process. Even when they do follow due process its not one agreed with the CWU or one that has been put into our contracts at any point.
4. Refusing Overtime - with the Pay & Mod agreement 30 minute flex section this is being abused as people should be consulted and the time being given back on a swings and roundabout basis. Yet I hear of people getting it back in 5 or 10 minute chunks, never and not being paid the 30 minute overtime. Or even sent home without pay for refusing as they had other commitments.
5. Striking in a controlled manner - Thats what we are about to do but only 1 day per time per unit. This is to let mail still move around the pipeline but allow us to make out legal and valid points
6. All out strike - we can do that if you want and that would really hurt business but that's not what we want we only want our concerns over B&H and poor Industrial relations, abysmal management style addressed.

AS A UNION.

1. Ask for negotiation over an agreement which is failing both sides. Refused by RM
2. Ask for government intervention to get both sides negotiating - Refused by Mandelson
3. Ask for ACAS involvement - Refused by RM and seen as pointless by Mandelson.
4. Ask for independent agencies to come up with a scheme to ensure a "Fair and Balanced Workload" - Refused by Royal Mail.
5. Ask for an independent body to investigate claims of Bullying and Harassment - Refused by RM and consistently denied by them that there is a problem.
6. Ask members to work to the rules laid down by the employer - when they do those members are suspended or sent home without pay as described above.
7. Try to keep the situation of local disputes under control - they tried but at one point they had 500 requests for ballots because of actions by management that were against the P&M agreement of 2007.
8. Ask members to back a strike call - Done - last choice the nuclear option but as all other avenues were exhausted what choice did we have except lay down and accept the indefensible.

[Hugh_G_Rection]

I wasn't going to bother posting this time around (I posted during the last postal strike that nearly finished us off due to the huge pile of packages that never got delivered or returned, and didn't see the point this time as it was largely three monkeys time), but can't resist after reading the comment that you don't believe the person who stated how many hours they work.
We the customer are supposed to listen to you and believe you and your reasons, but when your customer states that they work x hours per week (as do I), you don't believe them? Unbelievable arrogance. I also work 70 or so hours a week - I do everything in my business from buying, photographs, picking, packing, posting, to accounts and customer service. Please do not tell me that I do not.
The argument from the customer point of view is all about choices - we have NONE.
You choose to strike - it is your *choice*. Nobody is forcing you, however much you might feel that they are.
I and others like me have *no choice* because there is *no alternative* so it is very difficult to feel any solidarity, however much one might sympathise with postal workers predicament, because one might be forced to sacrifice oneself - no choice. My average sale is around £5 - I sit here all day and all night stuffing things in jiffy bags to make a quid or so on each parcel and that is supposed to keep my family, none of whom can get a job. I don't employ anyone because I can't afford to. I take around £100/week wages and rely on tax credits to exist. I cannot use one of your so-called competitors because they do not provide such a service - there is no *choice*.
Already my sales are through the floor - people (who generally are *not* aware of when the strike is because they don't really take much notice until their post is late...) are simply not buying because they have no idea when they might receive the parcel, and on top of the recession, it's probably terminal.
No choice. When the parcels are lost or trapped in some backlog, I end up having to replace the parcel and all profit is wiped out and a loss made - *no choice*.
And looking back over my life, in which all of my jobs have been white collar clerical jobs, I was expected to work as many hours as I was needed for *no extra pay at all*. No overtime. No union. The terms were incorporated into the contract of employment. No choice.
This strike which is wholly of *your choice* will probably finish my business this time, and I have absolutely *no choice* in the matter. This is why your customers are frustrated - this is why you are losing so much support while you believe that you are fully entitled to such support. Your self-interest is the only motivator - please do not say that it is as much for us as it is for you, because it isn't. This is not a co-operative, or a community - it is one poorly paid and treated worker pitted against another. You cannot win - Labour's reforms are like a steamroller, and nothing will stop it. You will simply be replaced by people who don't resist.
I posted here in 2007 when Hayes & Co were flavour of the year, and pointed out how much they were taking the pee out of you and that it would achieve nothing. I asked how much Hayes was earning and who he went drinking with - I got slated - which was not unexpected, and I see now that that particular unpleasant penny has dropped at least with some people, and yet you still believe that this cretin who thinks he is Scargill MkII has a point. Even if you have a point, he does not - he is one of them. Maybe he has even been persuaded to come over all pretendy-militant to ensure that the RM can implement its changes with the least possible public and government resistance.
Bitter? Yes - 10 years of trying to build a business from scratch for nothing, and what now with so many people out of work? Both myself and my husband are at that age when nobody will want to know, especially with such a massive pool of unskilled, young, cheap labour out there. He's not been able to get factory or warehouse work for years now. We will probably never work again.
I look forward to meeting you all down the Jobcentre - in case you didn't know, you have to report weekly for interrogation after a few months on the dole these days, and don't forget that ZanuLabour have plans for us all to have to work for our dole. Humping heavy bags around for a few hundred quid a week might seem like a holiday if you end up picking litter on the motorway in a NuLab hi-vis 'workfare' vest for £65 a week so think on before you think that you have nothing to lose.
Real reform comes from within, not by force, but oddly enough, the moment working-class people achieve any position of power or influence, they often transform into the very people they loathed for so long. Maybe Hayes thinks £100k isn't enough and fancies himself on a nice RM executive salary. Do these people that represent you ever make sacrifices? It's easy to sacrifice someone else when you know that you are allright Jack.
Good luck to you - you're going to need it.
(NB please don't bother replying - there's no point as I won't be back to read it, because there is no point etc etc.)

I will ask the question again. (He will read it)

WILL YOU GIVE ME YOUR GOODS/SERVICES FOR FREE IF I BUY FROM YOU? THOUGHT NOT WHY SHOULD WE AND YOUR EMPLOYEES WORK FOR FREE THEN?

Must be flexible the job advert says i.e. GIVE THE BOSSES FREE WORK whilst they take the cream. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/majorne ... ilure.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Must be true, it’s in the paper.

This job meets the minimum wage on job adverts i.e. They all say that now because Bosses have the hump, since the minimum wage became law, and now they can’t pay us £3 per hour wage like they did for decades

NO More ages discrimination oh no i.e. We will make the job so hard the over 55's won’t be able to do it so they will leave or go sick and we will sack em. Oh but, because of TEAM WORK and we are all the same irrespective of age and health so it must work then. The computer program told us it would!

Now where did I put my hanky?

[Harry_Perkins]

PS the timing of these strikes, like last time, is designed to hurt the *customer* who will still have to post the mail and hope for the best because they have no choice. If you really cared about the customer, you could have left it until after Christmas...it's one thing to want to pressure RM, it's another to be willing to sacrifice your own customer, without whom there would be no business.

Jeez, this should be well over before Christmas IMO

As for the rest of your post, it is once again the usual misrepresentations and attempts to make us feel guilty for basically not accepting being treated like any other wage slave. I feel sorry for workers without a recognised union but the solution is for them to organise towards one, not for workers with recognised unions to leave and join their ranks. This will do us and those workers no good at all.

Lets be clear here, *we're* not *your* customers as you seem to suggest. This is absurd. We don't own or make final decisions about the business. Our customers are Royal Mail too. We sell them our labour power for a wage. You are also a customer of Royal Mail. Therefore it is Royal Mail who have caused this dispute by not coming to an acceptable arrangement on the terms on which we sell them our labour power. So again, why are you on here and not writing to the government, the owners, and Royal Mail, the management, who run the business? You wouldn't be at fault if you turned down an offer for one of your products, so why is this true of us? The union has offered no strike deals, has said it will go to ACAS etc etc. If you saw a mugger in the street with a knife to someone's throat, would you go along and slag off the person being mugged!?! 'Cos that is what you're doing at the moment. How do you expect this to help the situation?

[coxie]

maleorder all you can see is your own business, this affects us all, we dont want to strike but you be prepared to work hours for a large company for free because they want you to work over your time each day, would you work if you were treated like a piece of sh it everyday. Trust me when i say if we cant get royal mail to listen to the union and reach an agreement then you wont be able to use royal mail in the future cos it will go down the pan. Do you think we want to strike and enjoy losing money?

[westlondonpostie]

I wasn't going to bother posting this time around (I posted during the last postal strike that nearly finished us off due to the huge pile of packages that never got delivered or returned, and didn't see the point this time as it was largely three monkeys time), but can't resist after reading the comment that you don't believe the person who stated how many hours they work.
We the customer are supposed to listen to you and believe you and your reasons, but when your customer states that they work x hours per week (as do I), you don't believe them? Unbelievable arrogance. I also work 70 or so hours a week - I do everything in my business from buying, photographs, picking, packing, posting, to accounts and customer service. Please do not tell me that I do not.
The argument from the customer point of view is all about choices - we have NONE.
You choose to strike - it is your *choice*. Nobody is forcing you, however much you might feel that they are.
I and others like me have *no choice* because there is *no alternative* so it is very difficult to feel any solidarity, however much one might sympathise with postal workers predicament, because one might be forced to sacrifice oneself - no choice. My average sale is around £5 - I sit here all day and all night stuffing things in jiffy bags to make a quid or so on each parcel and that is supposed to keep my family, none of whom can get a job. I don't employ anyone because I can't afford to. I take around £100/week wages and rely on tax credits to exist. I cannot use one of your so-called competitors because they do not provide such a service - there is no *choice*.
Already my sales are through the floor - people (who generally are *not* aware of when the strike is because they don't really take much notice until their post is late...) are simply not buying because they have no idea when they might receive the parcel, and on top of the recession, it's probably terminal.
No choice. When the parcels are lost or trapped in some backlog, I end up having to replace the parcel and all profit is wiped out and a loss made - *no choice*.
And looking back over my life, in which all of my jobs have been white collar clerical jobs, I was expected to work as many hours as I was needed for *no extra pay at all*. No overtime. No union. The terms were incorporated into the contract of employment. No choice.
This strike which is wholly of *your choice* will probably finish my business this time, and I have absolutely *no choice* in the matter. This is why your customers are frustrated - this is why you are losing so much support while you believe that you are fully entitled to such support. Your self-interest is the only motivator - please do not say that it is as much for us as it is for you, because it isn't. This is not a co-operative, or a community - it is one poorly paid and treated worker pitted against another. You cannot win - Labour's reforms are like a steamroller, and nothing will stop it. You will simply be replaced by people who don't resist.
I posted here in 2007 when Hayes & Co were flavour of the year, and pointed out how much they were taking the pee out of you and that it would achieve nothing. I asked how much Hayes was earning and who he went drinking with - I got slated - which was not unexpected, and I see now that that particular unpleasant penny has dropped at least with some people, and yet you still believe that this cretin who thinks he is Scargill MkII has a point. Even if you have a point, he does not - he is one of them. Maybe he has even been persuaded to come over all pretendy-militant to ensure that the RM can implement its changes with the least possible public and government resistance.
Bitter? Yes - 10 years of trying to build a business from scratch for nothing, and what now with so many people out of work? Both myself and my husband are at that age when nobody will want to know, especially with such a massive pool of unskilled, young, cheap labour out there. He's not been able to get factory or warehouse work for years now. We will probably never work again.
I look forward to meeting you all down the Jobcentre - in case you didn't know, you have to report weekly for interrogation after a few months on the dole these days, and don't forget that ZanuLabour have plans for us all to have to work for our dole. Humping heavy bags around for a few hundred quid a week might seem like a holiday if you end up picking litter on the motorway in a NuLab hi-vis 'workfare' vest for £65 a week so think on before you think that you have nothing to lose.
Real reform comes from within, not by force, but oddly enough, the moment working-class people achieve any position of power or influence, they often transform into the very people they loathed for so long. Maybe Hayes thinks £100k isn't enough and fancies himself on a nice RM executive salary. Do these people that represent you ever make sacrifices? It's easy to sacrifice someone else when you know that you are allright Jack.
Good luck to you - you're going to need it.
(NB please don't bother replying - there's no point as I won't be back to read it, because there is no point etc etc.)

If things are so bad why not become one of the 30,000 then,

[DGP1]

I've really seemed to hit a nerve all these people who work 70 hours a week (usually without any holidays) but they do seem to be able to come on here and spend time posting their comments, I wonder if they include this time in their magical 70 hours.

PS. I also deliver to firms and TBH some of these people never seem to do any work (including the guy who is perfecting his Spider Solitaire every time I go in, no matter what time I get to him), sometimes it's difficult to get through the smokescreen outside these places and I'm sure everyone of these people thinks they also work many hours when they really don't.

[markj113]

"taj47 wrote:

I also work 70 or so hours a week

My average sale is around £5 - I sit here all day and all night stuffing things in jiffy bags to make a quid or so on each parcel and that is supposed to keep my family, none of whom can get a job. I don't employ anyone because I can't afford to. I take around £100/week wages and rely on tax credits to exist."

So it takes you 70 hours a week earning £1 per package for a weekly wage of £100. So thats packaging 100 parcels over 5 days (if you dont work weekends) = 20 parcels in a 14 hour day or 42 minutes to package 1 parcel.

Good job your not a postie - you wouldnt pass the sorting rate test let alone complete a walk

[norbert]

"taj47 wrote:

I also work 70 or so hours a week

My average sale is around £5 - I sit here all day and all night stuffing things in jiffy bags to make a quid or so on each parcel and that is supposed to keep my family, none of whom can get a job. I don't employ anyone because I can't afford to. I take around £100/week wages and rely on tax credits to exist."

So it takes you 70 hours a week earning £1 per package for a weekly wage of £100. So thats packaging 100 parcels over 5 days (if you dont work weekends) = 20 parcels in a 14 hour day or 42 minutes to package 1 parcel.

Good job your not a postie - you wouldnt pass the sorting rate test let alone complete a walk

you spend more time on the Amateurish looking and sometimes amateurishly acting Ebay site for a million pound business - when Ebaying . It is a lot of work for what you get to be fair and the JSA / New Deal / Workfare alternative is very grim but I'm afraid these people lay it on a touch too thick and some of these posts are just a tad too well written .

The OP is right about Zanu Labour .

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