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Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Royal Mail pension news and discussion.Please note the advise given in this forum is unofficial, please use the links we have for a more detailed response or see an independent financial adviser.
Darrenj
Posts: 5
Joined: 31 May 2007, 10:43

Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by Darrenj »

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 644543.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The chairman of Royal Mail’s pension trustees is considering plans to close its retirement scheme to existing members after legislation to part-privatise the postal service was shelved last week.

It is understood that Jane Newell is mulling over whether the best option for postal workers is to close the pension scheme and force members to join a new retirement pot with far less lucrative benefits. As chairman of the trustees, Ms Newell has the power to shut the scheme but any decision would also be dependent on the agreement of Royal Mail’s management.

It is feared that such a move would trigger strike action across the country as heavily unionised postal workers opposed the future loss of generous final-salary pension benefits.

Lord Mandelson, the Business Secretary, told the House of Lords last week that proposed legislation to reform Royal Mail by selling a 30 per cent stake in it had been shelved. Had he been able to attract £3 billion for the stake and convince the 140 backbench Labour MPs who oppose the move, the Government would have taken responsibility for the Royal Mail pension pot.

Image

The pension scheme has a deficit of £3.4 billion and a revaluation now under way is expected to show a deficit of up to £10 billion. Such a shortfall would almost triple the sum that Royal Mail would have to contribute to the fund and plunge the postal service deeper into the red.

The trustees are furious with the Government and Royal Mail for failing to secure legislation that would have reformed the postal group. It is understood that they are seeking meetings with Royal Mail management to discuss how best to cope with the pension deficit.

Donald Brydon, Royal Mail’s chairman, indicated last month that he was ready to close the group’s final-salary pension scheme if the Government failed to partly privatise the postal group. He said: “If we don’t get this relief from the Government, we are going to have to look at . . . closing the pension scheme to existing members.”

Effectively, reform of Royal Mail has now been delayed until after the next general election. However, it is feared that by the time the next administration begins to grapple with Royal Mail’s future, the postal operator’s pension deficit will have ballooned to £10 billion and the group will have lost even more business. Volumes are declining by 10 per cent annually.

A spokesman for the pension trustees declined to comment on Ms Newell’s plans to close the scheme. Lord Mandelson said on Friday he was unaware of such proposals and Royal Mail was unavailable for comment.

The full ire of Royal Mail’s unions will be felt this week when postal workers across London begin a three-day strike, threatening to disrupt post for at least a week. It is widely feared that the Communication Workers Union, which represents postal workers, and Unite, the union whose members include mail managers, will call for walkouts over any substantive change to pension arrangements. Royal Mail’s pension scheme has about 450,000 members and payouts are calculated according to career average pay.
DGP1
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Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by DGP1 »

Liabilites have fallen but strangely the assets have also fallen, I'd like the people who are responsible for losing £4billion in assets to come out and explain how they lost it.
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RobertT
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Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by RobertT »

disgruntledpostie1 wrote:Liabilites have fallen but strangely the assets have also fallen, I'd like the people who are responsible for losing £4billion in assets to come out and explain how they lost it.
They lost it by investing in shares that went down in value,just like most shares have!

The reduction from £23.9 Billion to £20 Billion is a drop of about 16% which is actually less than the average portfolio drop during this current recesssion.
Links to all RM pension related websites are here
DGP1
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Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by DGP1 »

So the value of investments have gone down :hmmmm then what happens when they go back up again, does that mean we get back our 'gold plated' pension :hmmmm
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terrace
Posts: 154
Joined: 01 Jun 2007, 18:32

Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by terrace »

A couple of things here
1.Will someone tell Brydon that the Final Salary Scheme closed in 2008.
2. Jane Newell is considering plans to close its retirement scheme to existing members after legislation to part-privatise the postal service was shelved last week.As from 2008 we have a career average scheme ,is she proposing to change it again to some scheme that is even worse just to save money?
3.Why do the media get hear about any pension changes before the members hear about it?
I'd be grateful if anybody had the contact details of Jane Newell,email or postal address,so everyone can write to her and ask her what the hell is going on?
Night Tonic
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Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 21:35

Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by Night Tonic »

All a bit unknown for the moment although on point 2, complete closure is whats being considered.
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stokes11eg
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Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by stokes11eg »

:sad: Still not clear on being 'forced' to pay into a 'less lucrative'pot? If they close the current fund--I do not want to be forced into paying into any more for mythical pensions I will keep the money myself.!Surely it is voluntary, and we cannot be forced into shelling out? Also, can you imagine if they did close, and no one elected to pay into a new 'pension'the vast amount of money that would be lost to the government coffers?
I do not think they have thought things through enough,(nothing new there!) I still think the Unions should be looking at the leagalitiy of all this I have paid in nearly 19.000 quid over the years,and I WANT it back!The government can keep their share!
RobertT
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Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by RobertT »

disgruntledpostie1 wrote:So the value of investments have gone down :hmmmm then what happens when they go back up again, does that mean we get back our 'gold plated' pension :hmmmm
The deficit should reduce,but alot of the money that was invested in shares has now been diverted into safer and less volatile investments,so they probably won't go back up as much.
And there's still the 13 year pension holiday to consider.
terrace wrote: 1.Will someone tell Brydon that the Final Salary Scheme closed in 2008.
The part of your pension that was built up before April 2008 is still based on your final salary when you leave RM - something RM didn't have to do and might change in the future!
terrace wrote: 2. Jane Newell is considering plans to close its retirement scheme to existing members after legislation to part-privatise the postal service was shelved last week.As from 2008 we have a career average scheme ,is she proposing to change it again to some scheme that is even worse just to save money?
Yes. Probably to a 'defined contribution' scheme similar to a personal/stakeholder pension.
stokes11eg wrote::sad: Still not clear on being 'forced' to pay into a 'less lucrative'pot? If they close the current fund--I do not want to be forced into paying into any more for mythical pensions I will keep the money myself.Surely it is voluntary, and we cannot be forced into shelling out?
And work a lot longer than you'd probably like to and then live on the breadline when you do retire?
stokes11eg wrote: Also, can you imagine if they did close, and no one elected to pay into a new 'pension'the vast amount of money that would be lost to the government coffers?
The money you pay into your pension does not go to the government,they give you money in the form of tax relief.
stokes11eg wrote: I do not think they have thought things through enough,(nothing new there!) I still think the Unions should be looking at the leagalitiy of all this I have paid in nearly 19.000 quid over the years,and I WANT it back!The government can keep their share!
The pension you have built up to any change in scheme rules is safe,there is also the Pension Protection Fund incase RM goes bust. £19,000 is nothing in pension terms,if you had that in a personal pension it would give you an income at 60 of about £1,200 per year - compare that to what RM will give you.
Links to all RM pension related websites are here
stokes11eg
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Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by stokes11eg »

Sorry, i do not believe we will ever get our pension as such from R/M---it's looking more like fools gold.Fortunatly for me, I retire soon,but I really feel for those with a long way to go--how much will their money be truly worth in 20-30 years.?
norbert
Posts: 3027
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 01:46

Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by norbert »

stokes11eg wrote:Sorry, i do not believe we will ever get our pension as such from R/M---it's looking more like fools gold.Fortunatly for me, I retire soon,but I really feel for those with a long way to go--how much will their money be truly worth in 20-30 years.?
article in the News of The World , Cameron is threatening to axe the link between inflation and public sector pensions to bring them in line with private ones . The Tories may let state staff take on their employer's pensions as extra on their wages instead - meaning the workers will be completely responsible for sorting out their own retirement fund .

Pension expert Dr Ros Altmann said it was about time for a change , Public Sector Pensions have been immune to the economic crisis - they remain more generous than most others and totally guaranteed by tax payers .

Four out of five public sector workers are guaranteed up to two thirds of their final salary when they retire . The pensions are linked to inflation however high it rises .

Experts reckon the total public - sector bill could top £1.2 trillion more than three quarters of the nation's entire economic output .

IMO That may be based on if everybody retired tomorrow though . The EC want to pass strict dicktats as to how much debt the member states can have compared to it's GNP ( Gross National Product )

Expect spending cuts , slash and burn and strikes in 2010 :hmmmm - Cameron wrote a very right wing manifesto for Howard in 2005 , though the Tories are fighting for the central ground now , are they just pretending to be liberal ? :hmmmm :hmmmm
TrueBlueTerrier
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Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by TrueBlueTerrier »

Tories axe index link to pension

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/39 ... tmann.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PUBLIC workers will have their pensions slashed in a bid to cut the £1.2 TRILLION bill faced by taxpayers, under new Tory plans.

The Conservatives are considering axing the link between inflation and public sector pensions to bring them in line with private ones.

And they may let State staff take their employer's pension contributions as extra on their wages instead - meaning the workers would be completely responsible for sorting out their own private retirement fund.

Tory leader David Cameron's frontbench team is looking at several options before unveiling the plans later this year.

Last night pension expert Dr Ros Altmann - a former advisor to No10 Downing Street - said it was time for a change, adding: "Public sector pensions have been immune to the economic crisis. They remain more generous than most others - and totally guaranteed by taxpayers."


High

Four out of five public sector workers are guaranteed up to two-thirds of their final salary when they retire. The pensions are linked to inflation - however high it rises.

In the private sector just 16 per cent of workers get a final salary pension and the link is usually capped at five per cent.

No one knows exactly how much taxpayers will have to pay to meet the total public-sector pension bill. But experts say it is around £1.2 trillion - 78 per cent of the nation's entire annual economic output.
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stokes11eg
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Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by stokes11eg »

As I say--fools gold----as for all the so called assurances about being protected if the government go bust--how many people
truly believe that.?
Lounge Lizard
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Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by Lounge Lizard »

Or if we can get a good price for our Colleague Shares perhaps none of us will need to worry about being paid a pension. :crazy:
norbert
Posts: 3027
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 01:46

Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by norbert »

stokes11eg wrote:As I say--fools gold----as for all the so called assurances about being protected if the government go bust--how many people
truly believe that.?
I'd expect a lot of sh** stirring and rabble rousing in the Tory papers , what makes me laugh is will people like :cfo with his separate protected pension thanks to :mfo and the other RM directors & senior managers , people like Fred the Shred , Executives from the Banks , NHS executives , BBC fat - cats and big wigs , Local Government and Police top brass , MP''s and ex ministers senior civil servants , people from all these unelected quangos that Cameron wants rid of get shafted by Cameron ????

The other thing is that people will think everyone in the public sector is on the same deal as those fat cats :hmmmm , will just Joe Average get shafted
RobertT
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Re: Royal Mail’s pension scheme could be closed

Post by RobertT »

Lounge Lizard wrote:Or if we can get a good price for our Colleague Shares perhaps none of us will need to worry about being paid a pension. :crazy:
I think not!

Oh and the RM pension is not currently a public sector pension scheme.
Links to all RM pension related websites are here