So the company hasn't been losing money consequetively for the past few years then. If we carry on delivering all types of letters to every door for six days week the chances of us getting decent pay rises and improved conditions diminish considerably.
Seasonal variations have been halted for now.
Most other European countries have had some sort of USO reform because of letter decline.
At some point we were going to have to change to deal with the decrease in that sort of workload as the revenue from letters has fallen rapidly.
Or is that all a big conspiracy?
Can you honestly say letter volumes haven’t fallen off a cliff last 5/10 years ?
Finally someone that speaks a bit of sense on here rather than the bury their head in the sand doom and gloom merchants.
The "losses" in RM have been strategic. It posted record profits in 2021-22 (£768 million) and the following year made a headline loss of over £1 billion. Quite the turnaround and you would have to have your head in the sand if you really believe that there wasn't some element of strategic financial presentation or manipulation at play. You don't think that RM management wants to paint a picture that the current USO is financially unviable to make its operations cheaper and boost its profits? Is that some conspiracy or a bit like what someone else keeps saying on here...it's a business that exists to make even greater profits.
Look, I don't deny that letter volumes have fallen and USO reform is needed to some degree because of genuine changes in how people communicate. Imho the 5 day Monday to Friday universal service that the CWU originally proposed would have been the smart and logical compromise; but after the bitter dispute the CWU leadership, under pressure, have ultimately gone along with what RM management have wanted all along. It is a massive climbdown from their original position.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
So the company hasn't been losing money consequetively for the past few years then. If we carry on delivering all types of letters to every door for six days week the chances of us getting decent pay rises and improved conditions diminish considerably.
Seasonal variations have been halted for now.
Most other European countries have had some sort of USO reform because of letter decline.
At some point we were going to have to change to deal with the decrease in that sort of workload as the revenue from letters has fallen rapidly.
Or is that all a big conspiracy?
Can you honestly say letter volumes haven’t fallen off a cliff last 5/10 years ?
Finally someone that speaks a bit of sense on here rather than the bury their head in the sand doom and gloom merchants.
The "losses" in RM have been strategic. It posted record profits in 2021-22 (£768 million) and the following year made a headline loss of over £1 billion. Quite the turnaround and you would have to have your head in the sand if you really believe that there wasn't some element of strategic financial presentation or manipulation at play. You don't think that RM management wants to paint a picture that the current USO is financially unviable to make its operations cheaper and boost its profits? Is that some conspiracy or a bit like what someone else keeps saying on here...it's a business that exists to make even greater profits.
Look, I don't deny that letter volumes have fallen and USO reform is needed to some degree because of genuine changes in how people communicate. Imho the 5 day Monday to Friday universal service that the CWU originally proposed would have been the smart and logical compromise; but after the bitter dispute the CWU leadership, under pressure, have ultimately gone along with what RM management have wanted all along. It is a massive climbdown from their original position.
Tell the CWU in uncertain terms that this is the case.
Imho the 5 day Monday to Friday universal service that the CWU originally proposed would have been the smart and logical compromise;
But it would have needed an act of parliament - which might have taken years or might never have happened at all.
As a proposal it was neither smart or logical.
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
Imho the 5 day Monday to Friday universal service that the CWU originally proposed would have been the smart and logical compromise;
But it would have needed an act of parliament - which might have taken years or might never have happened at all.
As a proposal it was neither smart or logical.
Ah yes. The alternative of just lying to everyone, just like the water companies in England was preferable then? At least the Thames water CEO got a 6 figure "productivity" bonus this year for pumping thousands of tonnes of human piss and shite into our local rivers then eh
But it would have needed an act of parliament - which might have taken years or might never have happened at all.
As a proposal it was neither smart or logical.
True, the CWU never really launched a big public campaign to try and force politicians hands. Without that pressure, it was just a good idea left to rot. RM management knew that and that's why they ignored it and gambled on pushing for even deeper cuts.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
Imho the 5 day Monday to Friday universal service that the CWU originally proposed would have been the smart and logical compromise;
But it would have needed an act of parliament - which might have taken years or might never have happened at all.
As a proposal it was neither smart or logical.
What about a "watered down" version of what they're currently trialling, still delivering 1c mail on Saturdays along with parcels but forget all the bollocks and settle for initially saving 'just' 50 million, could have easily implemented it ages ago.
It certainly is. But having us go round with treble mail will be way too much on current rounds so there needs to be a balance.
And there in lies the main issues. I would like to know from the ones advocating the ODM how long the walks are in their office. If you’re already doing 5:30 deliveries with 28,000 steps a day that is not sustainable with triple mail Mon/Tues & double Wed/Thurs/Fri. They’ve got no intention of cutting the size of the walks, however if you’re currently on walks taking 3:30 then maybe it’s not such a problem. Be interesting to see what happens on Bank Holiday weeks when it becomes quadruple mail or is that something else that everyone is in dental of as well?
What happens in these offices that have severe staffing problems and the walks just don’t go out for days on end now, how will a unit ever get on top them? What happens when 1 (or maybe more) of the team of 3 goes sick or is on A/L with no cover? All these things need talking about and acknowledging that they will cause huge problems if not sorted out before rolling out the new way of working, it’s to simplistic to just say we’ve got to change to save the business.
One thing I’d like to know and that is how were these Pilot Offices chosen? I imagine RM poured over the data and chose the offices that are fully staffed,fully compliant on everything & have low volumes of mail/parcels. Would be interesting to know if the CWU actually questioned the validity of the chosen offices or were so desperate to be part of the process they just went along with everything.
What happens in these offices that have severe staffing problems and the walks just don’t go out for days on end now, how will a unit ever get on top them? What happens when 1 (or maybe more) of the team of 3 goes sick or is on A/L with no cover?
The can has been kicked so far down the road by that point that it genuinely doesn't matter to anyone other than the poor delivery OPGs who have to deal with it. That is how this s**t works unfortunately.
£12.24 an hour for some and they're still bending over backwards for these charlatans
Last edited by Londonsburning on 25 Apr 2025, 20:30, edited 1 time in total.
So if your on a singleton duty which doesn't change Monday to Friday then are you expected to take your packets and 1C on your duty and then any other given duty on a Saturday?
Basically what I'm saying is on the combined duties the Saturday driver has to take two duties worth of packets and 1C.
It certainly is. But having us go round with treble mail will be way too much on current rounds so there needs to be a balance.
And there in lies the main issues. I would like to know from the ones advocating the ODM how long the walks are in their office. If you’re already doing 5:30 deliveries with 28,000 steps a day that is not sustainable with triple mail Mon/Tues & double Wed/Thurs/Fri. They’ve got no intention of cutting the size of the walks, however if you’re currently on walks taking 3:30 then maybe it’s not such a problem. Be interesting to see what happens on Bank Holiday weeks when it becomes quadruple mail or is that something else that everyone is in dental of as well?
What happens in these offices that have severe staffing problems and the walks just don’t go out for days on end now, how will a unit ever get on top them? What happens when 1 (or maybe more) of the team of 3 goes sick or is on A/L with no cover? All these things need talking about and acknowledging that they will cause huge problems if not sorted out before rolling out the new way of working, it’s to simplistic to just say we’ve got to change to save the business.
One thing I’d like to know and that is how were these Pilot Offices chosen? I imagine RM poured over the data and chose the offices that are fully staffed,fully compliant on everything & have low volumes of mail/parcels. Would be interesting to know if the CWU actually questioned the validity of the chosen offices or were so desperate to be part of the process they just went along with everything.
Well, the very first office to go live Newton Mearns had 20 duties, ALL single van driving. A suburb a few miles south of Glasgow. Going from second class 12 days a fortnight down to 5 days a fortnight, and every person doing a mix of mail and parcels each day - they have every reason for it to succeed.
So if your on a singleton duty which doesn't change Monday to Friday then are you expected to take your packets and 1C on your duty and then any other given duty on a Saturday?
Basically what I'm saying is on the combined duties the Saturday driver has to take two duties worth of packets and 1C.
If you have a Monday to Friday singleton duty then surely your day off would be Saturday?
So if your on a singleton duty which doesn't change Monday to Friday then are you expected to take your packets and 1C on your duty and then any other given duty on a Saturday?
Basically what I'm saying is on the combined duties the Saturday driver has to take two duties worth of packets and 1C.
If you have a Monday to Friday singleton duty then surely your day off would be Saturday?
The day off pattern would be the same as everyone else but singleton duties take the mail every weekday and packets on a Saturday but they would expect you to do another duty of packets as well as your own on a Saturday to make the time up. I was wondering if the person on a singleton duty would be a spare on a Saturday once you have delivered your own packets.
So if your on a singleton duty which doesn't change Monday to Friday then are you expected to take your packets and 1C on your duty and then any other given duty on a Saturday?
Basically what I'm saying is on the combined duties the Saturday driver has to take two duties worth of packets and 1C.
If you have a Monday to Friday singleton duty then surely your day off would be Saturday?
The day off pattern would be the same as everyone else but singleton duties take the mail every weekday and packets on a Saturday but they would expect you to do another duty of packets as well as your own on a Saturday to make the time up. I was wondering if the person on a singleton duty would be a spare on a Saturday once you have delivered your own packets.
Martin Walsh is the man. I'm sure he and his cronies can answer that question, maybe they could even dig out the posties who are struggling with the workload on any given day
So if your on a singleton duty which doesn't change Monday to Friday then are you expected to take your packets and 1C on your duty and then any other given duty on a Saturday?
Basically what I'm saying is on the combined duties the Saturday driver has to take two duties worth of packets and 1C.
If you have a Monday to Friday singleton duty then surely your day off would be Saturday?
The day off pattern would be the same as everyone else but singleton duties take the mail every weekday and packets on a Saturday but they would expect you to do another duty of packets as well as your own on a Saturday to make the time up. I was wondering if the person on a singleton duty would be a spare on a Saturday once you have delivered your own packets.
Martin Walsh is the man. I'm sure he and his cronies can answer that question, maybe they could even dig out the posties who are struggling with the workload on any given day
Yours sincerely, Neil x
By all accounts the ones that picked the single duty are now regretting it, not sure why but its a couple of comments I've heard to from people in trial offices.
If they turn over a healthy profit the chances of us getting better conditions and pay increase.
The opposite is far more likely. Any profit will necessarily come from working us harder, and not just for one year but every subsequent year in order to keep the money rolling in until DK pays off his loan. Once the debt is repaid with a pound of your flesh, it'll be back to the standard shafting.
One thing I’d like to know and that is how were these Pilot Offices chosen? I imagine RM poured over the data and chose the offices that are fully staffed,fully compliant on everything & have low volumes of mail/parcels. Would be interesting to know if the CWU actually questioned the validity of the chosen offices or were so desperate to be part of the process they just went along with everything.
The union reportedly had a hand in selecting units with the intention of avoiding a sham trial.
