Public Holiday Entitlement

[tramssirhc]

The manager sounds like a real dickhead, they would know that you are entitled to a day back on your holiday quota, don't let it slide, make sure you get it back. It would br 5 hours they owe you.

That's not what the contract says. The contract says the requirement is to work 5 days out of 7. There is no mention of a day off. Under the CWU's profit driven delivery method there is a part time rotation that shows no days off for the duty. It's Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Wednesday and Saturday are shown as not applicable. The CWU aren't interested of course because 'its not a problem'. This thread suggests it very well maybe.

Bank Holiday, everyone gets them, if they fall on your day off they owe you a day, and the CWU have helped me in the past in regards to this.

Only if the bank holiday falls on the 'day off'. If there is no requirement to work or it's a day where the worker is not contracted to work then no you don't.

Ok, what happens to the persons bank holiday entitlement then? we all are entitled to 8 days bank holidays

In a situation where a worker has no contractual obligation either way on bank holiday there would be no entitlement. They simply would have no contractual obligation to work. Does the working time regulations state there is an absolute right to time off for bank holidays?

Why are you giving out wrong advise, it is quite clear the correct information for the person who started this thread that works a full week, so any day off that falls on a bank holiday that week, would be for them to receive a day back on their holiday.
If you don't know the correct information to give then DONT comment.

You need to read what the contract says. If anyone needs to not comment it's you because your wrong.

[Smoothbackground]

The manager sounds like a real dickhead, they would know that you are entitled to a day back on your holiday quota, don't let it slide, make sure you get it back. It would br 5 hours they owe you.

That's not what the contract says. The contract says the requirement is to work 5 days out of 7. There is no mention of a day off. Under the CWU's profit driven delivery method there is a part time rotation that shows no days off for the duty. It's Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Wednesday and Saturday are shown as not applicable. The CWU aren't interested of course because 'its not a problem'. This thread suggests it very well maybe.

Bank Holiday, everyone gets them, if they fall on your day off they owe you a day, and the CWU have helped me in the past in regards to this.

Only if the bank holiday falls on the 'day off'. If there is no requirement to work or it's a day where the worker is not contracted to work then no you don't.

Ok, what happens to the persons bank holiday entitlement then? we all are entitled to 8 days bank holidays

In a situation where a worker has no contractual obligation either way on bank holiday there would be no entitlement. They simply would have no contractual obligation to work. Does the working time regulations state there is an absolute right to time off for bank holidays?

Sorefeet beat me to it. We have a contractual right to the bank hols — the contract says so when it talks about holiday entitlement being x days plus 8 bank hols (obs pro rata for pt staff).

In order for that contractual entitlement to exist the contract needs to be explicit about days off. The contract states that the worker will work 5 days out of 7. If there is no contractual statement about days off then it is highly likely that the worker will simply not be required on a bank holiday.

Erm, the contract is explicit and in crystal-clear terms!

Public Holidays

8.2 In addition to your [holiday] entitlement in Clause 8.1 above, you are entitled to the usual public bank holidays applicable to the country where you work.

8.3 Details of local arrangements regarding requesting holidays (including Bank and Public Holidays) may be obtained from your line manager. If you are employed on a part time basis you will have your bank holiday entitlement adjusted in accordance with the Harmonisation of Part Time Conditions of Service Agreement details of which can be found on the Policy and Information Site.

[tramssirhc]

The manager sounds like a real dickhead, they would know that you are entitled to a day back on your holiday quota, don't let it slide, make sure you get it back. It would br 5 hours they owe you.

That's not what the contract says. The contract says the requirement is to work 5 days out of 7. There is no mention of a day off. Under the CWU's profit driven delivery method there is a part time rotation that shows no days off for the duty. It's Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Wednesday and Saturday are shown as not applicable. The CWU aren't interested of course because 'its not a problem'. This thread suggests it very well maybe.

Bank Holiday, everyone gets them, if they fall on your day off they owe you a day, and the CWU have helped me in the past in regards to this.

Only if the bank holiday falls on the 'day off'. If there is no requirement to work or it's a day where the worker is not contracted to work then no you don't.

Ok, what happens to the persons bank holiday entitlement then? we all are entitled to 8 days bank holidays

In a situation where a worker has no contractual obligation either way on bank holiday there would be no entitlement. They simply would have no contractual obligation to work. Does the working time regulations state there is an absolute right to time off for bank holidays?

Sorefeet beat me to it. We have a contractual right to the bank hols — the contract says so when it talks about holiday entitlement being x days plus 8 bank hols (obs pro rata for pt staff).

In order for that contractual entitlement to exist the contract needs to be explicit about days off. The contract states that the worker will work 5 days out of 7. If there is no contractual statement about days off then it is highly likely that the worker will simply not be required on a bank holiday.

Erm, the contract is explicit and in crystal-clear terms!

Public Holidays

8.2 In addition to your [holiday] entitlement in Clause 8.1 above, you are entitled to the usual public bank holidays applicable to the country where you work.

8.3 Details of local arrangements regarding requesting holidays (including Bank and Public Holidays) may be obtained from your line manager. If you are employed on a part time basis you will have your bank holiday entitlement adjusted in accordance with the Harmonisation of Part Time Conditions of Service Agreement details of which can be found on the Policy and Information Site.

Is that what this contract says?

[Smoothbackground]

The manager sounds like a real dickhead, they would know that you are entitled to a day back on your holiday quota, don't let it slide, make sure you get it back. It would br 5 hours they owe you.

That's not what the contract says. The contract says the requirement is to work 5 days out of 7. There is no mention of a day off. Under the CWU's profit driven delivery method there is a part time rotation that shows no days off for the duty. It's Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Wednesday and Saturday are shown as not applicable. The CWU aren't interested of course because 'its not a problem'. This thread suggests it very well maybe.

Bank Holiday, everyone gets them, if they fall on your day off they owe you a day, and the CWU have helped me in the past in regards to this.

Only if the bank holiday falls on the 'day off'. If there is no requirement to work or it's a day where the worker is not contracted to work then no you don't.

Ok, what happens to the persons bank holiday entitlement then? we all are entitled to 8 days bank holidays

In a situation where a worker has no contractual obligation either way on bank holiday there would be no entitlement. They simply would have no contractual obligation to work. Does the working time regulations state there is an absolute right to time off for bank holidays?

Sorefeet beat me to it. We have a contractual right to the bank hols — the contract says so when it talks about holiday entitlement being x days plus 8 bank hols (obs pro rata for pt staff).

In order for that contractual entitlement to exist the contract needs to be explicit about days off. The contract states that the worker will work 5 days out of 7. If there is no contractual statement about days off then it is highly likely that the worker will simply not be required on a bank holiday.

Erm, the contract is explicit and in crystal-clear terms!

Public Holidays

8.2 In addition to your [holiday] entitlement in Clause 8.1 above, you are entitled to the usual public bank holidays applicable to the country where you work.

8.3 Details of local arrangements regarding requesting holidays (including Bank and Public Holidays) may be obtained from your line manager. If you are employed on a part time basis you will have your bank holiday entitlement adjusted in accordance with the Harmonisation of Part Time Conditions of Service Agreement details of which can be found on the Policy and Information Site.

Is that what this contract says?

We await the OP’s definite confirmation, but all delivery posties will have a clause with similar effect in their contracts of employment. As you ought to know — though I suspect you are just being wilfully obtuse — the statutory minimum for someone working five days a week, such as our OP, is 28 days’ holiday (to include the 8 bank hols), and our contractual entitlement is obviously slightly more generous than that…

[tramssirhc]

The manager sounds like a real dickhead, they would know that you are entitled to a day back on your holiday quota, don't let it slide, make sure you get it back. It would br 5 hours they owe you.

That's not what the contract says. The contract says the requirement is to work 5 days out of 7. There is no mention of a day off. Under the CWU's profit driven delivery method there is a part time rotation that shows no days off for the duty. It's Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Wednesday and Saturday are shown as not applicable. The CWU aren't interested of course because 'its not a problem'. This thread suggests it very well maybe.

Bank Holiday, everyone gets them, if they fall on your day off they owe you a day, and the CWU have helped me in the past in regards to this.

Only if the bank holiday falls on the 'day off'. If there is no requirement to work or it's a day where the worker is not contracted to work then no you don't.

Ok, what happens to the persons bank holiday entitlement then? we all are entitled to 8 days bank holidays

In a situation where a worker has no contractual obligation either way on bank holiday there would be no entitlement. They simply would have no contractual obligation to work. Does the working time regulations state there is an absolute right to time off for bank holidays?

Sorefeet beat me to it. We have a contractual right to the bank hols — the contract says so when it talks about holiday entitlement being x days plus 8 bank hols (obs pro rata for pt staff).

In order for that contractual entitlement to exist the contract needs to be explicit about days off. The contract states that the worker will work 5 days out of 7. If there is no contractual statement about days off then it is highly likely that the worker will simply not be required on a bank holiday.

Erm, the contract is explicit and in crystal-clear terms!

Public Holidays

8.2 In addition to your [holiday] entitlement in Clause 8.1 above, you are entitled to the usual public bank holidays applicable to the country where you work.

8.3 Details of local arrangements regarding requesting holidays (including Bank and Public Holidays) may be obtained from your line manager. If you are employed on a part time basis you will have your bank holiday entitlement adjusted in accordance with the Harmonisation of Part Time Conditions of Service Agreement details of which can be found on the Policy and Information Site.

Is that what this contract says?

We await the OP’s definite confirmation, but all delivery posties will have a clause with similar effect in their contracts of employment. As you ought to know — though I suspect you are just being wilfully obtuse — the statutory minimum for someone working five days a week, such as our OP, is 28 days’ holiday (to include the 8 bank hols), and our contractual entitlement is obviously slightly more generous than that…

A decision has been made that a worker whose contract engages them to work 5 days out of 7 does not have a claim to recompense for a bank holiday that fell on a day they were not engaged to work. If there is proof that the worker was rota'd rest day on the bank holiday they have a claim. If the worker has been told they were not required, that there was no contractual engagement, then they do not.

There is a possibility that on week's not incurring a bank holiday that the worker would be informed which day was their rest day. A tribunal may well view the decision to disengage the worker on days that are bank holidays as unfair as it was not the normal practice to disengage the worker.

[raXor]

We await the OP’s definite confirmation, but all delivery posties will have a clause with similar effect in their contracts of employment. As you ought to know — though I suspect you are just being wilfully obtuse — the statutory minimum for someone working five days a week, such as our OP, is 28 days’ holiday (to include the 8 bank hols), and our contractual entitlement is obviously slightly more generous than that…

Just checked my contract and it says exactly what you quoted.

[sorefeet17]

The manager sounds like a real dickhead, they would know that you are entitled to a day back on your holiday quota, don't let it slide, make sure you get it back. It would br 5 hours they owe you.

That's not what the contract says. The contract says the requirement is to work 5 days out of 7. There is no mention of a day off. Under the CWU's profit driven delivery method there is a part time rotation that shows no days off for the duty. It's Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Wednesday and Saturday are shown as not applicable. The CWU aren't interested of course because 'its not a problem'. This thread suggests it very well maybe.

Bank Holiday, everyone gets them, if they fall on your day off they owe you a day, and the CWU have helped me in the past in regards to this.

Only if the bank holiday falls on the 'day off'. If there is no requirement to work or it's a day where the worker is not contracted to work then no you don't.

Ok, what happens to the persons bank holiday entitlement then? we all are entitled to 8 days bank holidays

In a situation where a worker has no contractual obligation either way on bank holiday there would be no entitlement. They simply would have no contractual obligation to work. Does the working time regulations state there is an absolute right to time off for bank holidays?

Sorefeet beat me to it. We have a contractual right to the bank hols — the contract says so when it talks about holiday entitlement being x days plus 8 bank hols (obs pro rata for pt staff).

In order for that contractual entitlement to exist the contract needs to be explicit about days off. The contract states that the worker will work 5 days out of 7. If there is no contractual statement about days off then it is highly likely that the worker will simply not be required on a bank holiday.

Erm, the contract is explicit and in crystal-clear terms!

Public Holidays

8.2 In addition to your [holiday] entitlement in Clause 8.1 above, you are entitled to the usual public bank holidays applicable to the country where you work.

8.3 Details of local arrangements regarding requesting holidays (including Bank and Public Holidays) may be obtained from your line manager. If you are employed on a part time basis you will have your bank holiday entitlement adjusted in accordance with the Harmonisation of Part Time Conditions of Service Agreement details of which can be found on the Policy and Information Site.

Is that what this contract says?

We await the OP’s definite confirmation, but all delivery posties will have a clause with similar effect in their contracts of employment. As you ought to know — though I suspect you are just being wilfully obtuse — the statutory minimum for someone working five days a week, such as our OP, is 28 days’ holiday (to include the 8 bank hols), and our contractual entitlement is obviously slightly more generous than that…

A decision has been made that a worker whose contract engages them to work 5 days out of 7 does not have a claim to recompense for a bank holiday that fell on a day they were not engaged to work. If there is proof that the worker was rota'd rest day on the bank holiday they have a claim. If the worker has been told they were not required, that there was no contractual engagement, then they do not.

There is a possibility that on week's not incurring a bank holiday that the worker would be informed which day was their rest day. A tribunal may well view the decision to disengage the worker on days that are bank holidays as unfair as it was not the normal practice to disengage the worker.

Ok lets play with you a bit longer, what happens if you are on holiday all week, and that week there is a bank holiday in it?

[Jen1]

I have to say I'm really disappointed about the lack of guidance around this from the business/management. If you're simply contracted to work 5 out of 7 days and those 5 days chop and change all the time at the discretion of the business then I don't really know how you determine if a bank holiday falls on a 'day off' or not. I generally get Sunday off plus whichever day my manager has more spares in.

The week of christmas I was rota'd to work 4 days either side of the 2 bank holidays and at new year I worked 5 days either side of New years day. I haven't claimed any O/T for either of these and have no idea if I have received any credit for these in my A/L balance, I don't know how I would even check this.

I'm not even sure what if any entitlement I have. If they are always changing my days off and they simply say 'well your working days all fall outside of the bank holiday this week, so you have no entitlement', what can I do? Seems like they would always change my rota to disadvantage me.

What can you do? The contract does not stipulate the specific days of work, simply that the contract is to work 5 days out of 7. Unless the contract states that there are specific days off, e.g. 'you will work a rotation which will give you a moving day off' or 'your day off is Saturday' then it is within the contract yo state that a bank holiday is a day where the worker has no contractual obligation. The CWU has agreed to a rotation system that creates a contract for specific days of work with no 'days off'. This situation where workers are being stood down (for want of a better phrase) on bank holidays is a result of the CWU's careless attitude.

Tramssrihc you need to go onto the people app and go to the Royal Mail policy guide and then go to annual leave entitlement then go to page 33 &34 and give that a read

You actually get bank holiday entitlement even if you are not contracted to work on a Monday or a Friday or whatever day that bank holiday falls on

However If you only work 3 days or less per week then you are not entitled to the full amount but there is a calculator on page 34 that shows you what you are entitled to

So even if the people with the new roles that are getting brought in aren’t contracted to work on a Monday ever they will still be entitled to the equivalent time off a different day that week

Hope that helps?

[Smoothbackground]

We await the OP’s definite confirmation, but all delivery posties will have a clause with similar effect in their contracts of employment. As you ought to know — though I suspect you are just being wilfully obtuse — the statutory minimum for someone working five days a week, such as our OP, is 28 days’ holiday (to include the 8 bank hols), and our contractual entitlement is obviously slightly more generous than that…

Just checked my contract and it says exactly what you quoted.

As others have rightly said, you are entitled to a day off in lieu for the BH, no doubt about it.

[tramssirhc]

I have to say I'm really disappointed about the lack of guidance around this from the business/management. If you're simply contracted to work 5 out of 7 days and those 5 days chop and change all the time at the discretion of the business then I don't really know how you determine if a bank holiday falls on a 'day off' or not. I generally get Sunday off plus whichever day my manager has more spares in.

The week of christmas I was rota'd to work 4 days either side of the 2 bank holidays and at new year I worked 5 days either side of New years day. I haven't claimed any O/T for either of these and have no idea if I have received any credit for these in my A/L balance, I don't know how I would even check this.

I'm not even sure what if any entitlement I have. If they are always changing my days off and they simply say 'well your working days all fall outside of the bank holiday this week, so you have no entitlement', what can I do? Seems like they would always change my rota to disadvantage me.

What can you do? The contract does not stipulate the specific days of work, simply that the contract is to work 5 days out of 7. Unless the contract states that there are specific days off, e.g. 'you will work a rotation which will give you a moving day off' or 'your day off is Saturday' then it is within the contract yo state that a bank holiday is a day where the worker has no contractual obligation. The CWU has agreed to a rotation system that creates a contract for specific days of work with no 'days off'. This situation where workers are being stood down (for want of a better phrase) on bank holidays is a result of the CWU's careless attitude.

Tramssrihc you need to go onto the people app and go to the Royal Mail policy guide and then go to annual leave entitlement then go to page 33 &34 and give that a read

You actually get bank holiday entitlement even if you are not contracted to work on a Monday or a Friday or whatever day that bank holiday falls on

However If you only work 3 days or less per week then you are not entitled to the full amount but there is a calculator on page 34 that shows you what you are entitled to

So even if the people with the new roles that are getting brought in aren’t contracted to work on a Monday ever they will still be entitled to the equivalent time off a different day that week

Hope that helps?

Certainly does. Thank you.

[tramssirhc]

We await the OP’s definite confirmation, but all delivery posties will have a clause with similar effect in their contracts of employment. As you ought to know — though I suspect you are just being wilfully obtuse — the statutory minimum for someone working five days a week, such as our OP, is 28 days’ holiday (to include the 8 bank hols), and our contractual entitlement is obviously slightly more generous than that…

Just checked my contract and it says exactly what you quoted.

are you contracted to work Sundays?

[raXor]

are you contracted to work Sundays?

Yeah, it can be any 5 days over 7, so it includes Sunday.

[tramssirhc]

are you contracted to work Sundays?

Yeah, it can be any 5 days over 7, so it includes Sunday.

If your contract explicitly states that you are entitled to paid leave which is inclusive of bank and public holidays, this could mean that your leave hours are calculated to include bank and public holidays. You are not alone in being told that as there is no contractual engagement on these types of days there is no requirement to facilitate payment or other remedies on these days.

The way to check if you have been afforded your contractual agreement is to calculate your paid leave hours for the leave year and include any public or bank holiday in the total amount. You can check this against your leave allocation and how many hours have been used. Make sure you include the bank and public holidays in that calculation.

if you have a look at gov.uk, acas etc you will see why there appears to be confusion over what should happen. ACAS state that workers cannot be forced to use their leave entitlement on a bank holiday which may contradict your contractual agreement. ACAS also state that a worker cannot be paid in lieu of a bank holiday except in certain circumstances which are very limited.

The test here is how your leave hours are calculated, what that calculation includes and how they have been allocated. In short if your leave allocation has been used on a bank or public holiday then you should be paid for the leave allocation that was used.

[tramssirhc]

I have to say I'm really disappointed about the lack of guidance around this from the business/management. If you're simply contracted to work 5 out of 7 days and those 5 days chop and change all the time at the discretion of the business then I don't really know how you determine if a bank holiday falls on a 'day off' or not. I generally get Sunday off plus whichever day my manager has more spares in.

The week of christmas I was rota'd to work 4 days either side of the 2 bank holidays and at new year I worked 5 days either side of New years day. I haven't claimed any O/T for either of these and have no idea if I have received any credit for these in my A/L balance, I don't know how I would even check this.

I'm not even sure what if any entitlement I have. If they are always changing my days off and they simply say 'well your working days all fall outside of the bank holiday this week, so you have no entitlement', what can I do? Seems like they would always change my rota to disadvantage me.

What can you do? The contract does not stipulate the specific days of work, simply that the contract is to work 5 days out of 7. Unless the contract states that there are specific days off, e.g. 'you will work a rotation which will give you a moving day off' or 'your day off is Saturday' then it is within the contract yo state that a bank holiday is a day where the worker has no contractual obligation. The CWU has agreed to a rotation system that creates a contract for specific days of work with no 'days off'. This situation where workers are being stood down (for want of a better phrase) on bank holidays is a result of the CWU's careless attitude.

Tramssrihc you need to go onto the people app and go to the Royal Mail policy guide and then go to annual leave entitlement then go to page 33 &34 and give that a read

You actually get bank holiday entitlement even if you are not contracted to work on a Monday or a Friday or whatever day that bank holiday falls on

However If you only work 3 days or less per week then you are not entitled to the full amount but there is a calculator on page 34 that shows you what you are entitled to

So even if the people with the new roles that are getting brought in aren’t contracted to work on a Monday ever they will still be entitled to the equivalent time off a different day that week

Hope that helps?

When your contractual agreement was enforced what was conceded? Was it agreed that any bank or public holiday was facilitated as per the contractual clause, i.e. any bank or public holiday was deducted from the total leave allocation and either paid or an alternative day off the same week was agreed.

[tramssirhc]

The manager sounds like a real dickhead, they would know that you are entitled to a day back on your holiday quota, don't let it slide, make sure you get it back. It would br 5 hours they owe you.

That's not what the contract says. The contract says the requirement is to work 5 days out of 7. There is no mention of a day off. Under the CWU's profit driven delivery method there is a part time rotation that shows no days off for the duty. It's Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Wednesday and Saturday are shown as not applicable. The CWU aren't interested of course because 'its not a problem'. This thread suggests it very well maybe.

Bank Holiday, everyone gets them, if they fall on your day off they owe you a day, and the CWU have helped me in the past in regards to this.

Only if the bank holiday falls on the 'day off'. If there is no requirement to work or it's a day where the worker is not contracted to work then no you don't.

Ok, what happens to the persons bank holiday entitlement then? we all are entitled to 8 days bank holidays

In a situation where a worker has no contractual obligation either way on bank holiday there would be no entitlement. They simply would have no contractual obligation to work. Does the working time regulations state there is an absolute right to time off for bank holidays?

Sorefeet beat me to it. We have a contractual right to the bank hols — the contract says so when it talks about holiday entitlement being x days plus 8 bank hols (obs pro rata for pt staff).

In order for that contractual entitlement to exist the contract needs to be explicit about days off. The contract states that the worker will work 5 days out of 7. If there is no contractual statement about days off then it is highly likely that the worker will simply not be required on a bank holiday.

Erm, the contract is explicit and in crystal-clear terms!

Public Holidays

8.2 In addition to your [holiday] entitlement in Clause 8.1 above, you are entitled to the usual public bank holidays applicable to the country where you work.

8.3 Details of local arrangements regarding requesting holidays (including Bank and Public Holidays) may be obtained from your line manager. If you are employed on a part time basis you will have your bank holiday entitlement adjusted in accordance with the Harmonisation of Part Time Conditions of Service Agreement details of which can be found on the Policy and Information Site.

Is that what this contract says?

We await the OP’s definite confirmation, but all delivery posties will have a clause with similar effect in their contracts of employment. As you ought to know — though I suspect you are just being wilfully obtuse — the statutory minimum for someone working five days a week, such as our OP, is 28 days’ holiday (to include the 8 bank hols), and our contractual entitlement is obviously slightly more generous than that…

Your suspicion is wrong. In order to secure the contractual agreement it needs to be understood why the decision that has been made was made. The working time regulations are not as simple as you imply and ACAS are throwing a massive spanner in the works if you look at their assertions. It's no wonder decisions are being made that may not be contractually correct.

Workers are being told that there is no need to consider bank or public holidays or how the contract may deal with them because they are not contracted to work on these days. It appears that the contractual clause for some workers means this decision is wrong. For other workers there maybe cases where they are using their leave entitlement in a way that ACAS says it cannot be used. ACAS also state that there cannot be payment in lieu of bank or public holidays except when a worker is leaving the employment.

This really is not a case of workers are entitled to bank of public holidays even if the contractual clause says that the leave entitlement includes the bank or public holidays. It's a mess. And it's not helped when the CWU agrees rotations without a rota'd day off like the part time DOC rota.