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POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

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TrueBlueTerrier
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POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by TrueBlueTerrier »

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1 ... ns-payout/

Image


A POSTMAN who was sacked for punching a customer in the face after a row about him leaving a note rather than delivering a parcel has won almost £5,000 in compensation.

Andrew Drysdale got into a fight with the householder after he was accused of not trying to make the delivery and then left the package with a neighbour, an employment tribunal was told.

The 60-year-old grandfather claimed he felt "threatened" by the man 20 years his junior, and had acted in "self-defence" after the row in which the customer told him he should "do his job properly".

However, he was fired without notice after the customer claimed that as well as striking him in the face, the postman had threatened him by saying he knew where he lived and would have his "pals" come to his home.

Mr Drysdale has now successfully sued Royal Mail for wrongful dismissal and won £4,734.36 in damages after an employment judge found accounts of the incident appeared to be "embellished".

The tribunal, held in Glasgow, heard that Mr Drysdale worked as a postman in Scotland from 2008.

In February 2024, an unnamed customer complained that a delivery hadn’t been attempted when he was at home, and he saw the driver sitting in a van.

Mr Drysdale said that this customer was lying - he had attempted to deliver the parcel and posted a card when there was no response.

He said he spoke to a neighbour and left the parcel with him when there was no answer on the third attempt to deliver it.

Later that month, the postman and the customer got into an altercation, the hearing was told.

“While going about his duties and on his way out of the building, [Mr Drysdale] encountered the customer coming up the stairs with his dog that was not on a lead," the hearing was told.

“[Mr Drysdale] asked the customer why he had complained.

“He said the customer should tell the truth.

“The customer was annoyed and replied that [Mr Drysdale] should do his job properly.

“The customer took out his mobile phone and told [Mr Drysdale] to wait until it was sorted.

“[Mr Drysdale] left the building and delivered mail at the next building.

“As [Mr Drysdale] was leaving that building, the customer, whose dog was now on a lead and tied to a fence, approached [him] aggressively.

“The customer was around 20 years younger than [Mr Drysdale] who felt threatened.

“The customer punched [Mr Drysdale]. [Mr Drysdale] threw his hand up in defence making contact with the customer.

“[Mr Drysdale] slipped. He suffering [sic] blows to the upper right arm, left upper thigh and hand."

The postman spoke to bosses and told them he had been assaulted and although he was "shaken", carried on with work.

Mr Drysdale said he didn’t want to call the police as "the situation had calmed down" and he "wanted to put the incident behind him".

The customer told the Royal Mail :“When [Mr Drysdale] came out of the next close he threw down his bag and shouted, "f****** square go then" and punched the customer in the face.

“[He] punched back in self-defence then his brother stepped in to separate the fight.

The customer said that the postman "threatened him saying that he knew where the customer stayed and his pals would be at the door".

He added that "he already suffered with mental health and anxiety and he goes out less in case [Mr Drysdale] came to his door".

The Royal Mail contacted a neighbour who had called the police about the incident who said he saw Mr Drysdale punch the customer 'twice on the head''.

At a formal meeting about his conduct, Mr Drysdale said he "only punched back because he was being punched and had to protect himself", and he denied threatening the customer.

Mr Drysdale was found to be the "instigator" of the incident and was sacked for gross misconduct.

Employment Judge Shona MacLean, however, was "unconvinced about the reliability" of the statements made by the customer and the neighbour.

"The neighbour’s version appeared embellished," the judge added.
Judge MacLean believed the incident "was more likely than not to have happened in the way [Mr Drysdale] described".

Mr Drysdale was entitled to 12 weeks' notice of termination, but he was summarily dismissed and had no notice or payment in place of the 12 weeks.

The judge found he had acted in self defence.

"It was regrettable that [Mr Drysdale] punched the customer in self-defence.

"While I appreciated that delivery workers are the face of [Royal Mail's] business, acting in self-defence when attacked did not amount to repudiatory breach of contract.

"I therefore concluded that [Mr Drysdale]’s conduct was so not serious as entitling the respondent to summarily dismiss him.

"The wrongful dismissal claim was upheld."

Mr Drysdale's claim for unfair dismissal was dismissed.
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Londonsburning
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by Londonsburning »

It's a real pity we need to read the S*n for this type of rage bait, but if one thing is true about this story, it's the type of s**t a lot of delivery posties have to put up with on the regular.
Deadly
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by Deadly »

No surprise that RM don't back their employee.
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by funkflex55 »

So does the ruling mean that he will get his job back.at RM or not. If not the money isn't that substantial when you've lost your job because of it.
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by Woody Guthrie »

funkflex55 wrote:
08 Apr 2025, 21:26
So does the ruling mean that he will get his job back.at RM or not. If not the money isn't that substantial when you've lost your job because of it.
No the judge did not rule the dismissal unfair only unlawful in the fact that he was dismissed without notice.

That's why he received the £4,734.36.

12 weeks PILON.

A wrongful dismissal remedy only deals with what would have happened if he had been dismissed properly.

An unfair dismissal remedy can lead to reinstatement (but not always).

They are two different things.
His unfair dismissal claim was rejected.
The story makes it sound like he won but really he didn't.
Only dead fish follow the current
funkflex55
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by funkflex55 »

Woody Guthrie wrote:
09 Apr 2025, 00:59
funkflex55 wrote:
08 Apr 2025, 21:26
So does the ruling mean that he will get his job back.at RM or not. If not the money isn't that substantial when you've lost your job because of it.
No the judge did not rule the dismissal unfair only unlawful in the fact that he was dismissed without notice.

That's why he received the £4,734.36.

12 weeks PILON.

A wrongful dismissal remedy only deals with what would have happened if he had been dismissed properly.

An unfair dismissal remedy can lead to reinstatement (but not always).

They are two different things.
His unfair dismissal claim was rejected.
The story makes it sound like he won but really he didn't.
Thank you Woody.
Mr Rush
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by Mr Rush »

Deadly wrote:
08 Apr 2025, 20:23
No surprise that RM don't back their employee.
All complaints are treated as valid. Even the ones that say you were seen putting a P739 through the door without attempting delivery and then got beamed up to the Enterprise.
The machine stops.
Acca Dacca
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by Acca Dacca »

Woody Guthrie wrote:
09 Apr 2025, 00:59
funkflex55 wrote:
08 Apr 2025, 21:26
So does the ruling mean that he will get his job back.at RM or not. If not the money isn't that substantial when you've lost your job because of it.
No the judge did not rule the dismissal unfair only unlawful in the fact that he was dismissed without notice.

That's why he received the £4,734.36.

12 weeks PILON.

A wrongful dismissal remedy only deals with what would have happened if he had been dismissed properly.

An unfair dismissal remedy can lead to reinstatement (but not always).

They are two different things.
His unfair dismissal claim was rejected.
The story makes it sound like he won but really he didn't.
What is the significance of what the judge says here then?

''While I appreciated that delivery workers are the face of [Royal Mail's] business, acting in self-defence when attacked did not amount to repudiatory breach of contract.

"I therefore concluded that [Mr Drysdale]’s conduct was so not serious as entitling the respondent to summarily dismiss him.'

If the judge has said that she thinks the customer and witness are not reliable with the truth, that she believes the posties version of events are more likely than not to have happened, that he acted in self defence and his conduct in self defence was not a breach of contract then what would have been the grounds to dismiss him properly? Just that Royal Mail can take the customer and witnesses accounts as true and go from there because there is no proof of what happened either way?

If acting in self defence gets you fired, does this mean you cant act in self defence at all if all it takes is the customer to lie?
If you tolerate this, then your paid break will be next
Woody Guthrie
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by Woody Guthrie »

Summarily dismissal is dismissal without notice.
It is normally reserved for the most serious offences like theft or serious violent conduct.
The judge did not believe that his behaviour warranted dismissal without notice following Royal Mail's own guidelines.

The judge did not say that acting in self defence was not a breach of conduct but that it was not a repudiatory breach which would entitle Royal Mail to withhold pay in lieu of notice.

An employer is entitled to make its own judgement on whether self defence is warranted or acceptable, employment tribunals are only interested in whether the process involved in reaching that conclusion is followed properly and fairly as laid out in the employer's internal procedure.
Only dead fish follow the current
Acca Dacca
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by Acca Dacca »

Woody Guthrie wrote:
09 Apr 2025, 20:51
Summarily dismissal is dismissal without notice.
It is normally reserved for the most serious offences like theft or serious violent conduct.
The judge did not believe that his behaviour warranted dismissal without notice following Royal Mail's own guidelines.

The judge did not say that acting in self defence was not a breach of conduct but that it was not a repudiatory breach which would entitle Royal Mail to withhold pay in lieu of notice.

An employer is entitled to make its own judgement on whether self defence is warranted or acceptable, employment tribunals are only interested in whether the process involved in reaching that conclusion is followed properly and fairly as laid out in the employer's internal procedure.
Thank you Woody for explaining that, that makes sense to me now.
If you tolerate this, then your paid break will be next
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by Gary55 »

Royal mail total w*****s
tramssirhc
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by tramssirhc »

Woody Guthrie wrote:
09 Apr 2025, 00:59
funkflex55 wrote:
08 Apr 2025, 21:26
So does the ruling mean that he will get his job back.at RM or not. If not the money isn't that substantial when you've lost your job because of it.
No the judge did not rule the dismissal unfair only unlawful in the fact that he was dismissed without notice.

That's why he received the £4,734.36.

12 weeks PILON.

A wrongful dismissal remedy only deals with what would have happened if he had been dismissed properly.

An unfair dismissal remedy can lead to reinstatement (but not always).

They are two different things.
His unfair dismissal claim was rejected.
The story makes it sound like he won but really he didn't.
What an awful anti-worker summation of the judgement. It's like all those terrible CWU reps who side with the employer because they're completely corrupt. The judge found in the worker's favour and ruled that the dismissal was wrong. The judge also found that the worker was a victim of an assault that was not properly investigated. But hey, you lie in that bed with the bosses.
"The leadership will sabotage the fight and only make the slightest move under fear of powerful working class action" - Des Warren
tramssirhc
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by tramssirhc »

Acca Dacca wrote:
09 Apr 2025, 20:14
Woody Guthrie wrote:
09 Apr 2025, 00:59
funkflex55 wrote:
08 Apr 2025, 21:26
So does the ruling mean that he will get his job back.at RM or not. If not the money isn't that substantial when you've lost your job because of it.
No the judge did not rule the dismissal unfair only unlawful in the fact that he was dismissed without notice.

That's why he received the £4,734.36.

12 weeks PILON.

A wrongful dismissal remedy only deals with what would have happened if he had been dismissed properly.

An unfair dismissal remedy can lead to reinstatement (but not always).

They are two different things.
His unfair dismissal claim was rejected.
The story makes it sound like he won but really he didn't.
What is the significance of what the judge says here then?

''While I appreciated that delivery workers are the face of [Royal Mail's] business, acting in self-defence when attacked did not amount to repudiatory breach of contract.

"I therefore concluded that [Mr Drysdale]’s conduct was so not serious as entitling the respondent to summarily dismiss him.'

If the judge has said that she thinks the customer and witness are not reliable with the truth, that she believes the posties version of events are more likely than not to have happened, that he acted in self defence and his conduct in self defence was not a breach of contract then what would have been the grounds to dismiss him properly? Just that Royal Mail can take the customer and witnesses accounts as true and go from there because there is no proof of what happened either way?

If acting in self defence gets you fired, does this mean you cant act in self defence at all if all it takes is the customer to lie?
The tribunal can only deal with what's before it. It cannot alter the events. Therefore the unfair dismissal fell because in the judges opinion the process was fair. However the matters covered by the process were not dealt with fairly and therefore did not meet the test of reasonableness. Sadly if the matters had been dealt with fairly this worker would not have been dismissed.
"The leadership will sabotage the fight and only make the slightest move under fear of powerful working class action" - Des Warren
Woody Guthrie
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by Woody Guthrie »

What an awful anti-worker summation of the judgement
You really can't help yourself can you..
I think you would benefit from some therapy of some kind.

It was a factual summation without opinion, believe it or not we don't always have to force ours on people.
Only dead fish follow the current
Wullie10
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Re: POSTIE PUNCH-UP Scots postman sacked by Royal Mail for PUNCHING customer wins £5k payout as judge rules he was in the right

Post by Wullie10 »

More to this I guess. Why didn't his colleagues walk out in support ?