New 30 hr contracts & meal breaks

[Woody84]

The 30 min break is automatically taken from the hours I clock each day so I have to clock 6hrs 30 mins to get paid my 6 hours.

Not a problem for now as I drive solo and take two 15 mins around my workload.

A numpty manager at one point did start sending me out with others that finished 90 mins before me. I work 09.00 - 15.30
So I'd get back at 2pm for the other postie to clock off, take my 30 min break until 2.30pm
And yes I was expected to go out again with tracked but after scanning and sorting the van I'd have 30 mins left on my hours, yup you guessed it I'd drive 10 mins away from the DO then stop and turn around and bring the whole lot back.

RM managers are a different breed

[kazardaimenu]

The 30 min break is automatically taken from the hours I clock each day so I have to clock 6hrs 30 mins to get paid my 6 hours.

Not a problem for now as I drive solo and take two 15 mins around my workload.

A numpty manager at one point did start sending me out with others that finished 90 mins before me. I work 09.00 - 15.30
So I'd get back at 2pm for the other postie to clock off, take my 30 min break until 2.30pm
And yes I was expected to go out again with tracked but after scanning and sorting the van I'd have 30 mins left on my hours, yup you guessed it I'd drive 10 mins away from the DO then stop and turn around and bring the whole lot back.

I like it! Also they shouldn’t be deducting pay from your basic contracted hours. Not yet anyway…

[kazardaimenu]

Here’s the scenario when I’m scheduled to work a Sunday at the end of the week. Sundays are 8 hour shifts, so we only do 5.5 hours the week leading up to it (4 x 5.5 = 22 + 8 Sunday = 30 hours)

My start time on a Wednesday – 8:59am
Finish time listed as 2:59pm (note it’s still 6 hours)
Meal relief -30 minutes

Full timers on the old contracts finish time listed as 2:39pm (should be 2:59pm but they get to scan out 20 minutes early) their breaks are listed as 20 minutes at 9am and 20 minutes at the end.

So the manager wants me to scan in at 8:59am, take a 20 minute break at 9am. Then start prepping from 9.20am. The FT will want to be back at the depot by 2:30pm to have enough time to unload, sign the keys back in etc, then they scan out at 2:39 and go home.

Meanwhile I’m also back at the depot now at 2:30pm, but my official finish time isn’t until 2:59pm and I’ve still got 10 minutes unpaid break owing to me…

Crazy.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

Here’s the scenario when I’m scheduled to work a Sunday at the end of the week. Sundays are 8 hour shifts, so we only do 5.5 hours the week leading up to it (4 x 5.5 = 22 + 8 Sunday = 30 hours)

My start time on a Wednesday – 8:59am
Finish time listed as 2:59pm (note it’s still 6 hours)
Meal relief -30 minutes

Full timers on the old contracts finish time listed as 2:39pm (should be 2:59pm but they get to scan out 20 minutes early) their breaks are listed as 20 minutes at 9am and 20 minutes at the end.

So the manager wants me to scan in at 8:59am, take a 20 minute break at 9am. Then start prepping from 9.20am. The FT will want to be back at the depot by 2:30pm to have enough time to unload, sign the keys back in etc, then they scan out at 2:39 and go home.

Meanwhile I’m also back at the depot now at 2:30pm, but my official finish time isn’t until 2:59pm and I’ve still got 10 minutes unpaid break owing to me…

You should be able to just take ten minutes in morning and twenty at the end if you want and scan out with the others.
That's a confusing pattern you have there.
I suppose you go back to 6.30 days when you aren't doing Sundays.
Them weeks you could come in at 8.29, take a ten minute break and scan out with the others.
Put that to them.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

Won't they just top you up with O/T the week you do a Sunday.
That's tight of them.
Give you two hours Sunday O/T

[insomniak]

Here’s the scenario when I’m scheduled to work a Sunday at the end of the week. Sundays are 8 hour shifts, so we only do 5.5 hours the week leading up to it (4 x 5.5 = 22 + 8 Sunday = 30 hours)

My start time on a Wednesday – 8:59am
Finish time listed as 2:59pm (note it’s still 6 hours)
Meal relief -30 minutes

Full timers on the old contracts finish time listed as 2:39pm (should be 2:59pm but they get to scan out 20 minutes early) their breaks are listed as 20 minutes at 9am and 20 minutes at the end.

So the manager wants me to scan in at 8:59am, take a 20 minute break at 9am. Then start prepping from 9.20am. The FT will want to be back at the depot by 2:30pm to have enough time to unload, sign the keys back in etc, then they scan out at 2:39 and go home.

Meanwhile I’m also back at the depot now at 2:30pm, but my official finish time isn’t until 2:59pm and I’ve still got 10 minutes unpaid break owing to me…

You could come in thirty minutes earlier at 8.29 then scan out with the others at 2.39 and just take a ten minute break.
So twenty minutes break would be at the end of the duty like everyone else.
That's what ours do.
Well they take 30 at the end because we are four day week so they get 40 minutes break because it's a 7.30 day.

Why would I come in 30 minutes earlier? This would have to be agreed as OT anyway firstly, otherwise I'm now doing another 30 minutes for free.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

Here’s the scenario when I’m scheduled to work a Sunday at the end of the week. Sundays are 8 hour shifts, so we only do 5.5 hours the week leading up to it (4 x 5.5 = 22 + 8 Sunday = 30 hours)

My start time on a Wednesday – 8:59am
Finish time listed as 2:59pm (note it’s still 6 hours)
Meal relief -30 minutes

Full timers on the old contracts finish time listed as 2:39pm (should be 2:59pm but they get to scan out 20 minutes early) their breaks are listed as 20 minutes at 9am and 20 minutes at the end.

So the manager wants me to scan in at 8:59am, take a 20 minute break at 9am. Then start prepping from 9.20am. The FT will want to be back at the depot by 2:30pm to have enough time to unload, sign the keys back in etc, then they scan out at 2:39 and go home.

Meanwhile I’m also back at the depot now at 2:30pm, but my official finish time isn’t until 2:59pm and I’ve still got 10 minutes unpaid break owing to me…

You could come in thirty minutes earlier at 8.29 then scan out with the others at 2.39 and just take a ten minute break.
So twenty minutes break would be at the end of the duty like everyone else.
That's what ours do.
Well they take 30 at the end because we are four day week so they get 40 minutes break because it's a 7.30 day.

Why would I come in 30 minutes earlier? This would have to be agreed as OT anyway firstly, otherwise I'm now doing another 30 minutes for free.

Your hours at work should be 6 hours 30 on some weeks and six hours on the week's you do a Sunday.
That's including the breaks.
If you wanna scan out with the others you have to be at work for 6 hours ten minutes to marry with SiSo if you take your break at the end.
You will have to come in earlier

[Mickeybrowneyes]

It won't be overtime cause you can go home the same time as the legacy contracts.
At the minute he's holding you back twenty mins.

[insomniak]

My argument is that the 30 minute break is unpaid, but it can still be dictated to me when and how it's taken and because of the working arrangements taking my UNPAID break at time when it would be most beneficial to me doesn't work with the way the job is. I understand why RM have obviously started the 6 hour day contracts because then a break is not required under Working Time Regulations. However since I have to be scanned in for 6 hours and 30 minutes by their SISO rules maybe there is some loop hole somewhere. The fact the 30 min break is in my contract though makes some of it irrelevant, because I have to take it or lose it. Once I'm required to work 6 hours and 1 minute then I'm legally entitled to a 20 minute break anyway. Which during High season I will be doing 6 hours & 10 minutes this just raises more questions.

All employment law states that breaks cannot be taken at the start or end of the working day. Since they are not a 'break' from the working day.

[insomniak]

It won't be overtime cause you can go home the same time as the legacy contracts.
At the minute he's holding you back twenty mins.

Unless they manually change the official starting times and adjust SISO for me then it's still going to show that I'm scanning out 20 minutes before my finish time. The start times for the part timers have obviously been arranged by some manager as how they think they will best work for the DO. Theres about another 7 or 8 people on the same contract as me so they'd also have to all be changed too and since most of them would have been told the average start times when taking the job moving them forwards 30 minutes earlier will probably cause some of them problems with childcare etc.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

It won't be overtime cause you can go home the same time as the legacy contracts.
At the minute he's holding you back twenty mins.

Unless they manually change the official starting times and adjust SISO for me then it's still going to show that I'm scanning out 20 minutes before my finish time. The start times for the part timers have obviously been arranged by some manager as how they think they will best work for the DO. Theres about another 7 or 8 people on the same contract as me so they'd also have to all be changed too and since most of them would have been told the average start times when taking the job moving them forwards 30 minutes earlier will probably cause some of them problems with childcare etc.

They can adjust the SISO times.
If the changes get agreed then they can change them properly so the SISO wouldn't have to be adjusted.
It makes business sense to all finish at the same time.
If your back at the office doing nothing but you can't scan out because your finish time is later it becomes a productivity problem.
By all coming in earlier your adding indoors hours to the office which will help with sorting and get other people out on time.
They may agree because it makes business sense.
Then you can go home at 2.39.
Speak to you rep.

[tramssirhc]

Hi, I have been looking on here for information the past few days and haven't really found the answers I'm looking and I guess since each DO seems to do different things it's probably best to just explain my situation.

I started back in May last year, I've always been paired with a full timer on old contracts. In our depot everyone takes a 20 min break at 9am and then goes out on delivery and signs out 20 minutes early (taking the second part of the 20 min break) on Saturdays there is no morning break and everyone signs out 30 mins early.

Very recently though a manager has been telling me that I'm not allowed to scan out early, because my breaks are unpaid. My issue though is that whilst I'm only paid 6 hours per day (or 5.5 hours per day if I'm working the Sunday that week as that's an 8 hour shift) however the shift times the new contract people are issued are 6 hours & 30 minutes long. Therefore if you don't take the breaks you end up working 30 minutes per day for free.

It has been suggested to me that I now start taking 20 minutes in the mornings with the full timers and then another 10 minutes once we're back at the depot. However on Saturdays this isn't possible as no one takes a break in the morning and also at least 3 days a week if I'm working the Sunday my start times are like 8:58am,8:54am etc so it seems crazy to have to scan it at 8:58am and then go on 20 minute break minutes later.

I'm aware that ACAS and the Gov website state that breaks shouldn't be taken at the start of end of the shifts but that only applies to those working more than 6 hours per day, which is how RM would probably get around it. However the wording in my contract is '30 minutes meal break' and I believe I should have the right to take the whole 30 minutes in one go uninterrupted. Since it's unpaid can they dictate to me when it's taken?

It's not feasible to take it midday as my partner on the day would have to either drop me back at the DO or somewhere local where I could take it and then pick me up afterwards. Or I leave them with a bag and take the van myself but then they would be finished and waiting around for me.

It seems unfair to be expected to be 'on duty' for 6 hours 30 minutes and only getting paid for 6 hours of it.

I am prepared to take this further now as it wasn't an issue if I was allowed to scan out 20 minutes early with the others even though I knew I was still losing 10 minutes per day, but I'd usually rather use that time in the morning getting prepped.

Going forwards I will either say they need to pair me with someone on the same contract so we can both take the 30 mins together and both scan out at our official finish time, or just give me my own van and I'll do my own thing and be scanned in for the full 6 hours & 30 minutes.

The grey area I need answers for is can they dictate to me when and how I take my 30 minutes UNPAID break?

The WTR state that employees who work more that 6 hours are entitled to a 20 minute uninterrupted unpaid break, away from the work.

If an employer chooses to make other arrangements for employees not covered by that regulations then the law is silent on those arrangements. However it would be unreasonable to make any other arrangements inferior to the WTR. That would require testing in an employment tribunal. Employees without two years continuous employment have very little recourse to the tribunal system.

The CWU is not interested in the break arrangements for the new contracts.

In short what happens to your break where you do not work more than 6 hours can be imposed. Where you work more than 6 hours the WTR apply, but you will need two years continuous employment to enforce the WTR.

You state that your contract hours do not align with your actual working hours. Again enforcing your contract requires two years continuous employment. Frankly thx whole thing sounds a complete mess.