New 30 hr contracts & meal breaks

[insomniak]

Hi, I have been looking on here for information the past few days and haven't really found the answers I'm looking and I guess since each DO seems to do different things it's probably best to just explain my situation.

I started back in May last year, I've always been paired with a full timer on old contracts. In our depot everyone takes a 20 min break at 9am and then goes out on delivery and signs out 20 minutes early (taking the second part of the 20 min break) on Saturdays there is no morning break and everyone signs out 30 mins early.

Very recently though a manager has been telling me that I'm not allowed to scan out early, because my breaks are unpaid. My issue though is that whilst I'm only paid 6 hours per day (or 5.5 hours per day if I'm working the Sunday that week as that's an 8 hour shift) however the shift times the new contract people are issued are 6 hours & 30 minutes long. Therefore if you don't take the breaks you end up working 30 minutes per day for free.

It has been suggested to me that I now start taking 20 minutes in the mornings with the full timers and then another 10 minutes once we're back at the depot. However on Saturdays this isn't possible as no one takes a break in the morning and also at least 3 days a week if I'm working the Sunday my start times are like 8:58am,8:54am etc so it seems crazy to have to scan it at 8:58am and then go on 20 minute break minutes later.

I'm aware that ACAS and the Gov website state that breaks shouldn't be taken at the start of end of the shifts but that only applies to those working more than 6 hours per day, which is how RM would probably get around it. However the wording in my contract is '30 minutes meal break' and I believe I should have the right to take the whole 30 minutes in one go uninterrupted. Since it's unpaid can they dictate to me when it's taken?

It's not feasible to take it midday as my partner on the day would have to either drop me back at the DO or somewhere local where I could take it and then pick me up afterwards. Or I leave them with a bag and take the van myself but then they would be finished and waiting around for me.

It seems unfair to be expected to be 'on duty' for 6 hours 30 minutes and only getting paid for 6 hours of it.

I am prepared to take this further now as it wasn't an issue if I was allowed to scan out 20 minutes early with the others even though I knew I was still losing 10 minutes per day, but I'd usually rather use that time in the morning getting prepped.

Going forwards I will either say they need to pair me with someone on the same contract so we can both take the 30 mins together and both scan out at our official finish time, or just give me my own van and I'll do my own thing and be scanned in for the full 6 hours & 30 minutes.

The grey area I need answers for is can they dictate to me when and how I take my 30 minutes UNPAID break?

[Woody84]

We’re having the same issue and it’s a ridiculous situation. A few part timers at my DO are very unhappy about it and I can’t blame them.

Luckily I’ve been trained up on collections/locking up and have been covering the full timers role for the past couple of weeks so working 10-6 and getting the OT and this week will be paired with another part timer.

Just another issue with the two tier situation RM (and the union?) have created.

[TopperGas]

Why can't you continue to take your 20 mins break at the end of the shift buy just sitting in the DO for the 20 mins? Or, if you want to be awkward, tell them you want to take it in the middle of the day and leave it for your manager to solve the problem that creates?

[kazardaimenu]

Park and loop makes this kind of thing impossible or at least awkward. You’d have to take it out on delivery if your manager is gonna be a dick about it as they can’t make you take it as soon as you get in. Taking it out on delivery might mean you’ll have to bring loops back as your partner won’t be able to carry on while you are on break. All this will result in your manager stomping his feet but you might be able to go back to the way you were doing things before.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

Hi, I have been looking on here for information the past few days and haven't really found the answers I'm looking and I guess since each DO seems to do different things it's probably best to just explain my situation.

I started back in May last year, I've always been paired with a full timer on old contracts. In our depot everyone takes a 20 min break at 9am and then goes out on delivery and signs out 20 minutes early (taking the second part of the 20 min break) on Saturdays there is no morning break and everyone signs out 30 mins early.

Very recently though a manager has been telling me that I'm not allowed to scan out early, because my breaks are unpaid. My issue though is that whilst I'm only paid 6 hours per day (or 5.5 hours per day if I'm working the Sunday that week as that's an 8 hour shift) however the shift times the new contract people are issued are 6 hours & 30 minutes long. Therefore if you don't take the breaks you end up working 30 minutes per day for free.

It has been suggested to me that I now start taking 20 minutes in the mornings with the full timers and then another 10 minutes once we're back at the depot. However on Saturdays this isn't possible as no one takes a break in the morning and also at least 3 days a week if I'm working the Sunday my start times are like 8:58am,8:54am etc so it seems crazy to have to scan it at 8:58am and then go on 20 minute break minutes later.

I'm aware that ACAS and the Gov website state that breaks shouldn't be taken at the start of end of the shifts but that only applies to those working more than 6 hours per day, which is how RM would probably get around it. However the wording in my contract is '30 minutes meal break' and I believe I should have the right to take the whole 30 minutes in one go uninterrupted. Since it's unpaid can they dictate to me when it's taken?

It's not feasible to take it midday as my partner on the day would have to either drop me back at the DO or somewhere local where I could take it and then pick me up afterwards. Or I leave them with a bag and take the van myself but then they would be finished and waiting around for me.

It seems unfair to be expected to be 'on duty' for 6 hours 30 minutes and only getting paid for 6 hours of it.

I am prepared to take this further now as it wasn't an issue if I was allowed to scan out 20 minutes early with the others even though I knew I was still losing 10 minutes per day, but I'd usually rather use that time in the morning getting prepped.

Going forwards I will either say they need to pair me with someone on the same contract so we can both take the 30 mins together and both scan out at our official finish time, or just give me my own van and I'll do my own thing and be scanned in for the full 6 hours & 30 minutes.

The grey area I need answers for is can they dictate to me when and how I take my 30 minutes UNPAID break?

At our office the new contracts align their breaks with the legacy contracts but they make their time up by coming into the office 40 minutes earlier than the legacy P/T contracts.
You can still take your break at the end of the day like the legacy contracts even though the break isn't paid.
Tell your manager that the finish times for the office should all align on the DDS.
The only way to stop disruptions on delivery is to do this and make the time up by helping with indoor work by coming in earlier.

[insomniak]

[/quote]

At our office the new contracts align their breaks with the legacy contracts but they make their time up by coming into the office 40 minutes earlier than the legacy P/T contracts.
You can still take your break at the end of the day like the legacy contracts even though the break isn't paid.
Tell your manager that the finish times for the office should all align on the DDS.
The only way to stop disruptions on delivery is to do this and make the time up by helping with indoor work by coming in earlier.
[/quote]

That already is kind of how it's done, but it's still basically them saying "take a break minutes after the start of your shift or lose it" and then also being told that I can't scan out when the FT's do at the end of the day.

The question is more whether them telling me that I have to scan in at 8:59am and then take a break at 9am is legal and if I'm within my rights to challenge it?

[Mickeybrowneyes]

At our office the new contracts align their breaks with the legacy contracts but they make their time up by coming into the office 40 minutes earlier than the legacy P/T contracts.
You can still take your break at the end of the day like the legacy contracts even though the break isn't paid.
Tell your manager that the finish times for the office should all align on the DDS.
The only way to stop disruptions on delivery is to do this and make the time up by helping with indoor work by coming in earlier.
[/quote]

That already is kind of how it's done, but it's still basically them saying "take a break minutes after the start of your shift or lose it" and then also being told that I can't scan out when the FT's do at the end of the day.

The question is more whether them telling me that I have to scan in at 8:59am and then take a break at 9am is legal and if I'm within my rights to challenge it?
[/quote]

What are your times. 9 - 3.30?
You need to challenge him on the the not scanning out at the end of the day.
As long as you worked you six hours by that time you can scan out with the others.
You can split your break and take it at the end.
You don't have to take your break on the premises so he shouldn't be holding you back.

[Dexydog]

Pretty sure that's not legal.
Lots of info on .gov.
Good to see you're not taking it lying down.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

It seems wrong to take your break as soon as you get in and probably illegal too.
Ours are working for an hour before their breaks kick in which still isn't great but it seems to be ok with people.
My advice on that would be see if you partner doesn't mind changing his breaks to fit a more suitable time for you when you are working on a CDV.
Get manager/rep involved in the conversation if you meet resistance.
You could both take it on delivery even.or just before you go out.

[norris9]

It seems wrong to take your break as soon as you get in and probably illegal too.
Ours are working for an hour before their breaks kick in which still isn't great but it seems to be ok with people.
My advice on that would be see if you partner doesn't mind changing his breaks to fit a more suitable time for you when you are working on a CDV.
Get manager/rep involved in the conversation if you meet resistance.
You could both take it on delivery even.or just before you go out.

I'm pretty sure it's not illegal.

A person who just works 6 hours a day isn't legally required to have a break. If their employer offers a break - I guess it's up to the employer when the break is taken.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

You may have to stay ten minutes longer actually if you have 30 mins break and the full timers have 40 minutes.
Because you will only have a ten minute break at the end instead of 20 like the full timers.
All the finishing times should align so that is probably why. But it should be just ten minutes later, not twenty.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

It seems wrong to take your break as soon as you get in and probably illegal too.
Ours are working for an hour before their breaks kick in which still isn't great but it seems to be ok with people.
My advice on that would be see if you partner doesn't mind changing his breaks to fit a more suitable time for you when you are working on a CDV.
Get manager/rep involved in the conversation if you meet resistance.
You could both take it on delivery even.or just before you go out.

I'm pretty sure it's not illegal.

A person who just works 6 hours a day isn't legally required to have a break. If their employer offers a break - I guess it's up to the employer when the break is taken.

Legally you have to give staff a 20 minute break every four hours I always thought.
I may be wrong.

[insomniak]

It seems wrong to take your break as soon as you get in and probably illegal too.
Ours are working for an hour before their breaks kick in which still isn't great but it seems to be ok with people.
My advice on that would be see if you partner doesn't mind changing his breaks to fit a more suitable time for you when you are working on a CDV.
Get manager/rep involved in the conversation if you meet resistance.
You could both take it on delivery even.or just before you go out.

The thing is now the walk I was covering for the past 3 months or so has now been signed for by someone more senior than me, so I'll be going back to being a floater so working with different people each day most likely, I don't really want to have to make others change their routines and I know most of them wouldn't anyway as none of them are interested in doing excess / OT, it's get back 10 minutes before scan out time and go home.

I'll probably push to being paired with someone one on the same contract as me or being allocated walks which have their own van and doing it on my own.

[Smoothbackground]

Though I did previously loosely follow the break patterns, these days I take the view that as it is unpaid, it is my time to choose what to do with and when - or even if - to take it.

The law says it is my right to take a break. The company doesn’t have a right to enforce any break (though it might do if it were paying me to take a break and therefore insisting I take one).

My contract says I must provide eight hours of labour each day. I gladly do so. If, however, as happens most days, I haven’t had a break, I will be leaving on the dot — unless there is OT (which at the minute there is very little of!).

Managers can see me carrying on with my work while others are on break, often going out on delivery while everyone else is still on break, and I haven’t encountered any problems with this.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

If you want to scan out with the others you could just take ten minute break at some point and take the twenty at the end.
On the DDS the finishing times have to align so it's the only way to get round leaving at the same time as everyone else.